Daily rant---DMV fees

paper said:

IL used to have a five year $5 registration on canoes and kayaks, until they figured out they were spending WAY more on the paperwork than the registration income. Oddly enough (very UN-Illinoislike) they got rid of the registration on anything that doesn't have a motor.

I think I still have a registration sticker on my kayak.. It'll be an antique some day..

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Oh boy. Give it time. The financial shape Ill. is in right now, it will only be a matter of time before they see this.

LDUBS said:

California has the same approach to boats without motors. Except sailboats over 8' have to be registered, motor or not. So, if you have a sailboat, best to tell DMV it is 7.5' long and 22' wide and that it moves sideways most of the time.

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Now this one is funny LDUBS. You can give up your day job now. :wink:

Here in Ontario Canada my boat trailer is licensed one time with no expiry date. I think the license was less than fifty dollars. Registration for the boat is once every ten years for free. There are no fees for canoes, kayaks and such watercraft.

WV1951 said:

LDUBS said:

California has the same approach to boats without motors. Except sailboats over 8' have to be registered, motor or not. So, if you have a sailboat, best to tell DMV it is 7.5' long and 22' wide and that it moves sideways most of the time.

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Now this one is funny LDUBS. You can give up your day job now. :wink:

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Thanks! Haha.

AR doesn't do titles on boats or trailers and the registration fee is 3 years for $7.50 (although they did make some changes to the process this year that should help cut down on boat theft). The trailer license is a lifetime of the trailer plate that cost like $8 I think (too many years ago). I also pay an increase of $3-5 per year (I'm never really sure on this) on personal property taxes. So I guess I'm paying around $7 per year in fees to keep my boat legal and that's sounding pretty good right about now, after reading all the other stories.

vfourmax said:

Yearly boat registration fees in Va. are fairly reasonable and I agree that all watercraft using the waters, ramps and public resources should be paying the same fees motorized or not.

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I'm NOT trying to start a pissing content but when did we start to EXPECT to PAY for using OUR public resources? Then EXPECT ridiculous fee increases with promises of infrastructure improvements that vaporize after fees may be voted on like the salt water fishing license in Florida.

Even IF a ramp is maintained and the facilities are upgraded... WHY is it that people with dogs do not pay for dog parks, and neither do folks with children pay for huge parks with slides, swings and dozens of other things to play on. So a freaking yak, row boat or electric driven watercraft have to pay?

Sorry, I do not agree with having to pay for using OUR public facilities, that makes them private by nature.

Gnappi; Tread lightly, here. You're getting very close to politicizing the issue, and that will get the thread closed up.

For the record, I can agree with you, but you haven't covered it thoroughly enough. Those fees that we all pay, are what pays for those facilities, and any improvements. The "regular" tax dollars that we all pay don't get used for "parks and recreation", at least not in Iowa.

Now, I do have a pet peeve, and that's making 100% of taxpayers pay for something that only 5% of the population uses, and then not charging any fees to that 5% for using the facilities. In my particular instance, Iowa has spent millions, if not billions, on a network of cycling trails, disguised as "nature trails". Now 100% of the taxpayers have had to pay for them, but there are NO fees being charged for the use of the trail. In my view, that hardly seems fair to the other 95% of the taxpayers that don't use them. It can be said the same for lakes and rivers, except that boaters and fisherman ARE being charged fees, through licenses and special stamps.

Just my opinion.....Roger

You're right Roger. I hope the mods do not perceive it as politicizing the issue because after all it is about "what floats our boats... or not"

I just see this as an unfair burden on all kinds of sportsmen (and women) and I "think" it's because some sports are considered a luxury to be taxed while others like baseball, football et. al are considered some sort of public right.

gnappi said:

vfourmax said:

Yearly boat registration fees in Va. are fairly reasonable and I agree that all watercraft using the waters, ramps and public resources should be paying the same fees motorized or not.

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I'm NOT trying to start a pissing content but when did we start to EXPECT to PAY for using OUR public resources? Then EXPECT ridiculous fee increases with promises of infrastructure improvements that vaporize after fees may be voted on like the salt water fishing license in Florida.

Even IF a ramp is maintained and the facilities are upgraded... WHY is it that people with dogs do not pay for dog parks, and neither do folks with children pay for huge parks with slides, swings and dozens of other things to play on. So a freaking yak, row boat or electric driven watercraft have to pay?

Sorry, I do not agree with having to pay for using OUR public facilities, that makes them private by nature.

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Again my position is I personally am not against paying a reasonable fee such as boat registration or a fishing license when those fees directly are used to upgrade the facilities and protect the waterways and fisheries that I get to enjoy.

Here in Virginia the boat registration fee runs between 27.00 for a boat up to 16 feet and 31.00 for a boat up to 20 feet in length every 3 years. So for roughly 9.00 - 10.00 dollars a year give or take you have unlimited use of all public ramps regardless of how the boat is powered. A very small price to pay in my opinion for the use of a ramp and parking area providing waterway access for use to the general population of the state.

I do think that ALL people that use those facilities should equally pay and just because I may say use a canoe with an electric trolling motor I should not have to pay the registration fee while a user of a canoe with a paddle uses the same launch facilities at no cost to them whatsoever.

That is singling out certain users to pay and support the facilities while allowing other users the same use of the facilities at no charge.

Again having the people that use the facilities actually pay for their operation I have no problem with. I can agree with this logic being used for dog parks, walking and biking trails or any venue or activity that a person chooses to take advantage of and the general public should not have their tax dollars spent to benefit or subsidize specific activities that are not a requirement and would not generally be be utilized by all of the tax paying population.

I do appreciate that we have public access to the waters in this area, I know of one stretch of a river in my area that has fantastic fishing and was only accessible via one privately operated ramp. That business closed down and the ramp is closed so there is a section of river that is awesome for boating and fishing that is not available for public access any longer.

If it takes a reasonable boat registration fee to open more public ramps I will gladly pay to receive the benefit it offers but all that use the facilities to launch ANY WATERCRAFT should pay as well, not just those that use an alternate system of propulsion whether it be gas, electric or wind.

Again this is just one persons opinion. These facilities are not built, maintained or monitored at no cost and the best chance of retaining those we already have and even adding in new locations is when the money required comes from a source of funds that is designated from the start just for that purpose rather than hoping the tax dollars are appropriated from the state or localities general tax revenues.

I just wish the states would come up with a standard regarding titles and registrations. Some states require titles for trailers, others don't. Some require titles for boats, others don't. If you buy something from a state that doesn't, your state expects you to magically acquire a title. I understand the fee if your boat/trailer/car/truck has numbers assigned to it, then they need to keep track of the information and that costs money. But my boat ramp is a private ramp for our club and maintenance comes out of our pockets, my dmv boat fees don't pay for any of it. But the public has no problem setting up their beach chairs and fishing from it, or launching their kayaks or canoes from it. Too many states are starting to use these fees as part of their normal budget and that's why they keep getting bigger. NJ decided to force PWC owners to take a safety course (which I think is a good idea since most people have no clue what they're doing) and the course cost $75 to $100. They realized they were making a lot of money on it so they decided to force all boaters to take the safety course so they could bring in even more $$$. Now they charge a fee to have "boat operator" on your driving license. Shouldn't they also be charging people to operate a riding lawn mower? #-o

I don't think the push mower guys should be let off the hook! :shock:

Where I am I would be surprised if little or any of the DMV fees go for maintenance of boating facilities like ramps.

LDUBS said:

I don't think the push mower guys should be let off the hook! :shock:

Where I am I would be surprised if little or any of the DMV fees go for maintenance of boating facilities like ramps.

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When we "voted" for a salt water fishing license fee we were promised fish hatcheries, re-seeding the conch, better ramps, more LEO's for catch enforcement... none happened. We did however get improved baseball / football / soccer fields, tennis / racquetball courts, dog parks and kiddie playgrounds among others.

gnappi said:

When we "voted" for a salt water fishing license fee we were promised fish hatcheries, re-seeding the conch, better ramps, more LEO's for catch enforcement... none happened. We did however get improved baseball / football / soccer fields, tennis / racquetball courts, dog parks and kiddie playgrounds among others.

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Now we are finally back to my original post. The electorate passes these levies and the elected officials and bureaucrats decide how to raise fees and spend it.

How many people remember the national 5 cent a gallon gasoline tax put on back in the seventies with the sole purpose to reduce the deficit? That lasted about...well, not very long, and the money was thrown in with all the rest to be spent as they saw fit.

LDUBS said:

I don't think the push mower guys should be let off the hook! :shock:

Where I am I would be surprised if little or any of the DMV fees go for maintenance of boating facilities like ramps.

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Here in Virginia all transactions concerning the actual titling of the boat, taxes on the boat and boat registration are handled by the Dept of Game and Inland Fisheries so those funds directly go into their operating budget.

So those funds will go towards whatever programs that the Dept of game and inland fisheries are needing to financially support at the time. This is one of the main reasons I would support a registration of all watercraft in our state as that registration money goes back into the department that supports and enforces our fisheries and waterways.

Those funds not only build ramps but also handicapped fishing docks, support water safety and marine law enforcement among many other worthwhile programs that benefit all those who boat on Virginia waters.

If you use the resource you should help pay to support it. If you fish you must have a license, if you hunt you must have a license and again those fees as well go back to the Game and Inland Fisheries so it makes sense if you boat you should be helping to pay and support the facilities and resources you are using and taking advantage of period.



Now the boat trailer is different and is through the DMV and of course the prices they charge are ridiculous and who knows where that money ends up.

In my neck of the woods boat and trailer are registered thought the DMV. There is an earmarked special $8/year quagga mussel fee that I support to protect our lakes but suspect is mostly wasted by state bureaucracy.. I also think that most of the $25 to $30 million collected for boat/trailer registrations every year goes to pay for a bloated DMV and our highway patrol (they deserve it). And of course, this is a drop in the bucket compared to vehicle DMV fees. In addition to the boat registration fees, we pay an annual property tax amounting to about 2% of boat's value (AKA luxury tax). I think it fair to say the county assessor's are handing very little of this back to manage our waterways, ramps, etc. A fishing license is $48 ($63 if you want a second rod). Almost every lake I go to has parking fees, launching fees, and fishing fees. Kayakers pay too. These facilities are typically operated by utilities/water companies and concessions are hired to run the place. The fees go to the maintenance of the place and fish stocking. The ones I go to are run pretty well.

Sorry, pretty sure I'm repeating myself at this point.

It seems to me that if your state legislators pass spending measures to collect fees for specific things and then don't use the monies collected for those items and continue to just toss the money into the general budget, that is called misappropriation of funds and is in itself a criminal offence. I think if you were inclined to do so that you could file suit against the state.

My personal favorite for collecting funds that I can't use at all is the school tax that's levied against all people who live within school districts. I don't kick up too much of a fuss over it because the school systems are miserably under funded.

WTF is a privilege tax?