Decided to go finesse

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senkosam
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Joined: 05 Aug 2019, 05:56

Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 13 Aug 2019, 11:29

I've used bass tackle for most of my life but decided to go ultra light to catch all species. Jig head max weight rarely exceeds 1/16 oz and most lures used are soft plastic that are less than 3" in length. Nice is being able to pour my own lures or modify many of the soft plastic lures already owned (hybrids). I've caught panfish and bass smaller than 3" all the way up to 7.5 lb catfish and 3 lb bass. I rarely catch less than 30 fish per outing and in late spring the number was over 60. Here are a few examples:
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Kut Tail worm on a 1/32 jig with #2 hook:
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This little guy must have really been hungry:
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Clear stubby tail:
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Wacky rigged hybrid with stubby tails:
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Xtremeboats
-CN-
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Location: Mauston, WI

Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by -CN- » 10 Sep 2019, 16:32

This is good fishing!

I like using a drop shot for panfish. A No. 4 hook with a 1/8 oz sinker and use half of a senko, or sometimes a Gulp! minnow or other smaller thin plastic worm, wacky rigged. Bluegill, crappie, and bass in abundance with this rig. Had northern bite me off fishing this way too.

JNG
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by JNG » 15 Sep 2019, 15:47

I prefer finesse/life like presentations. Produce better for me than swimbaits or other giant sized lures.

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 16 Sep 2019, 11:38

JNG wrote:
15 Sep 2019, 15:47
I prefer finesse/life like presentations. Produce better for me than swimbaits or other giant sized lures.
I have to agree. Been a while since I targeted pan fish with light tackle. Last time was maybe 4 years ago and I knocked them dead using tiny trout magnet jigs. Many moons ago when I used to target large mouth bass, it was rubber worms fished slowly that were hands down most productive. At the time we wouldn't have known that it was called a Texas rig. There is a learning curve. It is hard to explain the method to someone new but once it works a couple of times it is like a light bulb goes off and it becomes second nature. This was long before drop shot or wacky rigs were part of the vocabulary. haha.
Have Rod - Will Fish

senkosam
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 16 Sep 2019, 20:47

Not so sure about lifelike as a reason fish bite lures. Many lures look mechanical in action and get bit anyway. Guess it's in the eye of the beholder what's considered natural and lifelike.

When I design soft plastic lures, I'm strictly after lure actions that irritate fish to strike. Some would say fish bite to eat whatever they strike; I say lures composed of plastic, wood, wire, rubber/ silicone, paint, metal, bronze and other unnatural materials are an unknown to fish and yet they strike anyway.

Not all crankbaits catch fish yet many move in a similar way depending on design, but design matters - ALWAYS ! Fish may be stupid but they are extremely sensitive and aware. I go from there and search for various lure actions fish are more than likely to attack if for no other reasons than - why not? and trespassers not welcome - especially those that flaunt their stuff !

If believing something increases your chances of catching fish, by all means develop a system based on those beliefs of what lures to use and when. The above is my system.

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 17 Sep 2019, 19:58

"Not so sure about lifelike as a reason fish bite lures."

Maybe not, but could be a big reason fisherman buy them! Haha

Actually, I think something that seems like prey or wounded prey is going to be effective.
Have Rod - Will Fish

senkosam
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Joined: 05 Aug 2019, 05:56

Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 17 Sep 2019, 20:11

LDUBS wrote:
17 Sep 2019, 19:58
"Not so sure about lifelike as a reason fish bite lures."

Maybe not, but could be a big reason fisherman buy them! Haha

Actually, I think something that seems like prey or wounded prey is going to be effective.
As a one who tinkers with soft plastic designs and catches fish with many, I'd have to say that fish can't know what a lure represents. In other words, they are incapable of even guessing what a lure supposedly imitates. One thing anglers want to believe is that lures are like duck decoys - animal look alikes that fool them into believing something is a real animal and attract them because of it. Maybe so, but how to prove it is the problem. Much easier to know what lure actions catch the most fish coupled with size and shape. The rest is up to the angler using the lure the best way.

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 18 Sep 2019, 00:36

I don't know. I think I might disagree. I mean, sure the fish isn't having a conscience thought process like "Gee, does that look like a shad minnow over there?". Instead, through action, noise, scent, vibration, color or a combination of those things the lure is representing something that is triggering the instinct to strike at the lure. Or, maybe another way to think about it. If the instinct to chase after a food source wasn't strong fish wouldn't even exist. A lure has to represent something that is triggering that instinct, meaning prey and/or something threatening, or something violating territory.
Have Rod - Will Fish

senkosam
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 18 Sep 2019, 05:35

through action, noise, scent, vibration, color or a combination of those things the lure is representing something that is triggering the instinct to strike at the lure.
A bird is not a part of it's diet yet bass will attack them on the surface or any mammal swimming near it.
If the instinct to chase after a food source wasn't strong fish wouldn't even exist.

All this means is that fish eat to survive. The fact that they strike live animals and semi-animate objects (lures) is to me apples and oranges. The first one they instinctively know what it is; the second not so much but strike it anyway - dumb animal that it is.
Animals in general strike out for many reasons - defense being one of them and as you say:
triggering that instinct, meaning prey and/or something threatening, or something violating territory.
If you focus on lures violating territory, unlike prey animals that don't violate territory, you have to wonder what it is about a lure that generates such aggression. My belief is that feeding has nothing to do with it nor defense nor anger nor anything else attributed to mammals. Looking at it another way, fish aren't fooled but simply provoked.

Most lures don't look or move naturally so that can't be it. Tell me how these lures do:
spinnerbait with it's strobe-like brightly flashing blade
in-line spinners with revolving blade and steady flash
Helin's Flat Fish that wobbles like crazy from side to side
Chatterbait that wobbles like crazy from side to side
broad bill, deep dive crankbait that wobbles like crazy from side to side
steady retrieved buzzbait that plop plops without pause on the surface
Zara Spook - a cigar shape that zigzags with its exposed giant treble hooks ( that instinct should tell a fish to avoid)
Senko - another cigar shape that basically falls flat and horizontal ( not much natural action there)
skirted jig and pork rind trailer - the combination looks nor moves like nothing a fish has ever seen or will see as long as it lives.

None of the above examples can be said to represent any prey animal accept by humans that insist they do by a big stretch of the imagination - the one thing fish don't possess. What fish do have though are senses that can be overloaded to the point of making a fish strike - an animal that is an energy conservative to the max. How they make fish strike is key and unique to lure types. Anglers should concentrate on aggression triggers that are unique to the best lures and absent in lures that are generally in clearance bins.

Again JMO but one that continues to serve me and others.

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LDUBS
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Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by LDUBS » 19 Sep 2019, 18:04

Interesting discussion.

"A bird is not a part of it's diet yet bass will attack them on the surface. . . ."


But birds are part of its diet. Same for swimming rodents, snakes, etc.

"The first one [live prey] they instinctively know what it is; the second [artificial] not so much but strike it anyway - dumb animal that it is."
"Most lures don't look or move naturally so that can't be it. Tell me how these lures do:"


Because the lure mimics natural prey or, even better wounded bait fish, which trigger the instinct. Look at a healthy minnow dart around compared to a wounded one wobbling around. That is what all of those wobbling/vibrating/buzzing lures mimic. Fish don't have to "guess" what it is because it triggers the same instincts as a natural meal, or threat. And remember, fish have a sense (lateral lines) that is outside of human experience when it comes to sensing vibrations or movement through water.

Except, I have to admit I have no idea about the Senko. I've never used that rig and kind of scratch my head how it can work so well as it must otherwise it wouldn't be so popular.

All my (unscientific) opinion, of course.
Have Rod - Will Fish

senkosam
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Joined: 05 Aug 2019, 05:56

Re: Decided to go finesse

Post by senkosam » 19 Sep 2019, 22:09

Here's to a great imagination and I'll leave it at that.

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