Installing a switch panel to eliminate my birds nest

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Back to re wiring the switch panel. Question: I’m removing the positive jumper wires and running a separate wire to fuse panel for each switch. Don’t I also need to do the same thing with the negative wires instead of one wire grounding the entire panel?
 
Back to re wiring the switch panel. Question: I’m removing the positive jumper wires and running a separate wire to fuse panel for each switch. Don’t I also need to do the same thing with the negative wires instead of one wire grounding the entire panel?
AWG14, I would recommed 2 separate grounds to the panel, 1 for the 12v plug, and one for the rest: panel lights, usb, and volt meter.
 
Since it came up I did a little looking and everything I read said all connectors must be crimp soldered or not.
Boat Builders Handbook, electrical section does not address splices.

The ABYC E-11 standard is quite clear that “solder shall not be the sole means of electrical connection”. Crimp and then solder yes. Straight solder. NO.

ABYC is the industry standard.
 
AWG14, I would recommed 2 separate grounds to the panel, 1 for the 12v plug, and one for the rest: panel lights, usb, and volt meter.
Thanks for replying. I appreciate the help. Definitely grounding the 12 v plug on its own. I have new 14 awg tinned copper and tinned copper heat shrink adhesive connectors and sleeves. Would I still need to run a separate ground for each switch or include the switches with the panel lights , usb , and volt meter?
 
Your not switching the ground, only the 12v and ground is going directly to the load, so no need to run a separate ground to the switch. Now if you have lighted switches and you want them to light, those need ground to light only but can share one ground as there's so very little load even if they were all turned on at once. I'm considering USB/volt meter to be a load, albeit a minimal one, and could also share with the switches assuming wire gage is ample. Help?
 
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Thanks for replying. I appreciate the help. Definitely grounding the 12 v plug on its own. I have new 14 awg tinned copper and tinned copper heat shrink adhesive connectors and sleeves. Would I still need to run a separate ground for each switch or include the switches with the panel lights , usb , and volt meter?
The ground for the switches, are only used for the lights in the switch. They can be connected to the same ground as usb, voltmeter, and each switch. I wouldn't expect swicth lights, usb, voltmeter to use more than 5a when all are on.
 
Since it came up I did a little looking and everything I read said all connectors must be crimp soldered or not.
Why does any one think a Crimped wire a good thing? Where does a wire brake? Where it's been crimped! I know its been done for years, but unless you can do in lab and not under your 18" x 20" console you will brake wires
 
Why does any one think a Crimped wire a good thing? Where does a wire brake? Where it's been crimped! I know its been done for years, but unless you can do in lab and not under your 18" x 20" console you will brake wires
Agree, been to a few NASA briefs about failed crimp splices. They were developing a crimp tool with SWR technology to determine the validity of crimps.

Without really good tools, under crimps/over crimp could cause a bigger issue.

Just my opinion but, The lashing and wester union lineman solder connections look like they should meet ABYC E-11 standards.
Attached is NASA doc on how to do splices including solder.
 

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Your not switching the ground, only the 12v and ground is going directly to the load, so no need to run a separate ground to the switch. Now if you have lighted switches and you want them to light, those need ground to light only but can share one ground as there's so very little load even if they were all turned on at once. I'm considering USB/volt meter to be a load, albeit a minimal one, and could also share with the switches assuming wire gage is ample. Help?
Thank you. After I thought about it it hit me the accessories are all grounded at the fuse panel on the ground bar. All the switches do is connect the circuit of the positive to complete the circuit.
 
Why does any one think a Crimped wire a good thing? Where does a wire brake? Where it's been crimped! I know its been done for years, but unless you can do in lab and not under your 18" x 20" console you will brake wires

I just try to adhere to the code, which I consider the minimum standard. The following is from a West Marine article covering ABYC standards and best wiring practices:

"Most wire problems happen at the connections, and the experts are mostly in agreement on this one. Connections should be mechanically connected, not just soldered. Per ABYC (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit”. Further, crimping provides a solid mechanical connection resistant to “cold joints” breaking under fatigue, and removes strain."

I did not quote the part specifically prohibiting use of wire nuts on boats.
 
Keep in mind that electrical problems are very often due to grounding issues. Proper grounding is very important. If your grounds are bad, anything in the system can act up, and it will be difficult to find out why.

Good wire is also very important. Marine tinned wire is the best. Here is one I use often: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0799HTZB5 The price is reasonable, and it is very corrosion resistant. For LED fixtures, I tend to use this wire: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N0A16X2/ Very good tinned wire, easy to solder. There are many others, but try to buy tinned, marine wire. Do it once, do it right. Will save you many headaches.

DO NOT buy CCA wire! CCA stands for Copper Clad Aluminum. CCA wire WILL FAIL in damp environments. AVOID LIKE PLAGUE! I can't over stress this.


As far as crimps versus soldering, you can use both, but I strongly recommend that you buy quality heat-shrink connectors with hot-glue inside and a quality crimping tool made for heat shrink connectors.

Make sure to use the right size for the wire you are working with. The wire should mostly fill up the crimp sleeve.

Strip, insert, crimp down and hold for a few seconds and then release. And then try to pull it off. Really. If you can pull it off, it's a bad connection, and you need to find out WHY. Was the wire gauge too small for the connector? Do you need to adjust your tension a notch? Did you put the connector in crooked or upside down? Remember, for pin-type crimpers, the pin needs to push into the solid side, not the split side. That is vital!

If the connection is solid, use a heat gun to shrink and glue the connector, and you will have a solid, reliable part. A little dab of dielectric grease before connecting helps prevent corrosion, especially in saltwater boats.

Once you get proper crimping down pat, you won't solder much. In fuse panels and behind dashboards, I almost never solder.

One notable exception is when I make up my main ground spider. (harness) For that, I run a 6 to 10 gauge TINNED main wire directly from the battery, depending on the boat. 6 gauge for a boat with a lot of stuff, 8 or 10 for a small boat with a few lights, depth finder and a bilge pump.

When making up the spider, starting from the battery, anywhere something needs a ground, I strip back some insulation, separate the strands and weave the jumper through the main wire and twist, then solder, liquid tape and heat shrink the outside Repeat as needed, and terminate at the ground bar or the negative side of the fuse or breaker panel. Good grounding is vital to prevent problems. All your major components should have their own direct ground wire to the main. This greatly reduces problems and electrical interference.

Another area where I always solder is when making connections in the bilge area for pumps, float switches and so on.

And a third area is @ the main battery terminals. Crimping is the primary connection. The solder fills the area and prevents water from wicking up into the main cables. MANY saltwater boats come in with cables that look good, but when you cut them 2" above the battery terminals, it's all green powder.

One note about soldering is to not go overboard. If you overheat the wires and the solder wicks too far, you can make that area very brittle. Use a decent soldering gun, rosin flux and a quality electronic solder and it's quick and relatively easy.

Once you learn the basics, you won't have many or any electrical problems.
 
Another tip that may be useful to reduce birdsnests...

If you have an old outboard engine main wire laying around, they are often made of high-grade tinned wire and have multiple wires already color-coded and are neatly sheathed. Same with some of the other engine wires, like the tilt-trim cable, which usually has 3-6 wires inside.
 
I just try to adhere to the code, which I consider the minimum standard. The following is from a West Marine article covering ABYC standards and best wiring practices:

"Most wire problems happen at the connections, and the experts are mostly in agreement on this one. Connections should be mechanically connected, not just soldered. Per ABYC (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit”. Further, crimping provides a solid mechanical connection resistant to “cold joints” breaking under fatigue, and removes strain."

I did not quote the part specifically prohibiting use of wire nuts on boats.
If there ever was a fire heaven forbid, I wonder which type of connectors the insurance company would be looking for?
 
Let’s add fuel to the fire.
Im putting the two led flood lights mounted on the stern on one circuit. That means a three way connection off the wires. I’ve found some three way butt connectors heat shrink. But they look like three ring terminals riveted together. Anyone use these or what is your method for a three way splice?
 
Let’s add fuel to the fire.
Im putting the two led flood lights mounted on the stern on one circuit. That means a three way connection off the wires. I’ve found some three way butt connectors heat shrink. But they look like three ring terminals riveted together. Anyone use these or what is your method for a three way splice?


For some reason I don't like those 3-way connector things. When I had to do the same thing, I used an oversized butt connector. Two wires in one end and one wire, doubled over so it is not too loose, in the other end. Crimp then cover the whole thing with heat shrink tube.

You might also want to take a look at "close-end connectors with heat shrink". I put a pic below.


Screen Shot 2023-01-12 at 10.31.24 PM.png
 
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Let’s add fuel to the fire.
Im putting the two led flood lights mounted on the stern on one circuit. That means a three way connection off the wires. I’ve found some three way butt connectors heat shrink. But they look like three ring terminals riveted together. Anyone use these or what is your method for a three way splice?
Butt splice.
 

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If there ever was a fire heaven forbid, I wonder which type of connectors the insurance company would be looking for?
I've torn apart dozens of boats of all sizes, and most are 100% crimped connectors from the factory, with some having a soldered ground harness, and many having a crimped and soldered battery cable, but most often not even that.

I don't think adding some solder would ding you with the insurance company, but PROPER WIRE SIZING, FUSING, PROPER CONNECTORS and a SECURING WIRES IN A SAFE PATH are what they will look at as far as electrical systems go. In metal boats, securing the wires is pretty important. A rubbed wire against the hull could ruin your day and your hull. Remember to fuse as close to the power source as possible. Redundant fuses can be annoying but might save your boat. In my own boats, I often use a main fuse panel, and also add individual pop-out circuit breakers of slightly less amperage at the switch panel. Also consider using a battery shutoff switch with only the bilge pump wired directly if you keep your boat in the water.

Other factors that can cause fire, are fuel spill or leaks, shorting out the battery or sparks causing the hydrogen gas a battery releases when charging to explode, particularly when jumping a battery or charging the battery. I once went to jump a guy and he grabbed the cables. I saw what he was about to do, and yelled "STOP!" but it was too late. BOOM!!!! Fortunately, when I yelled, he turned his head and didn't get acid in his eyes. But both of us got all our clothes ruined. By the time I got home, I had holes all through my clothes. But it could have been MUCH worse.

Fire is no joke. If you have ever seen a boat burn, you will forever take precautions. It's a terrible thing. Check every connection as if your life depended on it, as it very well might.
 
Let’s add fuel to the fire.
Im putting the two led flood lights mounted on the stern on one circuit. That means a three way connection off the wires. I’ve found some three way butt connectors heat shrink. But they look like three ring terminals riveted together. Anyone use these or what is your method for a three way splice?
In the boat itself, a secured terminal strip is how I would go, but we use the crimp-cap connectors pictured above on boat trailers all the time, filled with E6000 adhesive before shrinking. When installed that way on trailer lighting, they never fail.
 
I've torn apart dozens of boats of all sizes, and most are 100% crimped connectors from the factory, with some having a soldered ground harness, and many having a crimped and soldered battery cable, but most often not even that.

I don't think adding some solder would ding you with the insurance company, but PROPER WIRE SIZING, FUSING, PROPER CONNECTORS and a SECURING WIRES IN A SAFE PATH are what they will look at as far as electrical systems go. In metal boats, securing the wires is pretty important. A rubbed wire against the hull could ruin your day and your hull. Remember to fuse as close to the power source as possible. Redundant fuses can be annoying but might save your boat. In my own boats, I often use a main fuse panel, and also add individual pop-out circuit breakers of slightly less amperage at the switch panel. Also consider using a battery shutoff switch with only the bilge pump wired directly if you keep your boat in the water.

Other factors that can cause fire, are fuel spill or leaks, shorting out the battery or sparks causing the hydrogen gas a battery releases when charging to explode, particularly when jumping a battery or charging the battery. I once went to jump a guy and he grabbed the cables. I saw what he was about to do, and yelled "STOP!" but it was too late. BOOM!!!! Fortunately, when I yelled, he turned his head and didn't get acid in his eyes. But both of us got all our clothes ruined. By the time I got home, I had holes all through my clothes. But it could have been MUCH worse.

Fire is no joke. If you have ever seen a boat burn, you will forever take precautions. It's a terrible thing. Check every connection as if your life depended on it, as it very well might.
Thanks for the sharing your wisdom. I saw a young man jump starting a diesel pickup and as soon as he connected the cables it sounded like dynamite going off. Luckily he too had his head turned and was in front of his house so he ran in and managed to clean up. I just knew we were going to have to call 911. It scared me so bad ever since I’ve tried to do any wiring correctly to the best of my knowledge. I’m redoing a couple of things I did when I first got the boat while I’m doing the new stuff because of what I’ve learned from everyone in this thread. Including replacing some 14 awg wire I used because I had a spool handy. It’s not tinned copper and all the connections are sealed correctly but im afraid what if just one connection fails. Then I have copper corrosion and won’t know it until it’s to late. All my wires are covered with loom with good quality zip ties every so often . Especially at the end of the loom where I had to start another piece. I will be inspecting all he wire more often like I do the motor which I was doing a spark test on and the tester arched to the lower cowl and that 40hp knocked me back a few step. Needless to say another lesson learned about electrical and doing everything by myself isn’t always safe.
 

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