1962 18hp Evinrude- please help

GarageBeers · May 14, 2023

Hi there, just completed a full rebuild. Has good compression. Confirmed spark. Brand new points. Brand new coils + condensers. Points set to .020. Confirmed fuel reaches carb. Here are the issues happening:
- i am getting zero “chug” or “cough” when trying to start
- when i pull start, fuel shoots out of the intake (carb leaking?)
- when i pull the plugs after doing a few pull starts, they do not smell like fuel at all (fuel isnt reaching the cylinder?)

I rebuilt the carb but its still the OE 1962 carb. High speed and low speed female ports worn down too much?

The points do not stay closed until the lobe comes around to open to .020. They are always open. Is this bad? I just installed brand new points. Used the richards outboard points setter for T and B cylinder timing- each set to .020. Used the richards outboard circle ring

My guesses:
- carb itself is bad, even with a rebuild in it?
- reed valve isnt allowing fuel into the cylinder? I installed new reed valves correctly via OE manual
- weak spark? But i dont smell fuel on plugs

Pappy · May 14, 2023

Points have to be closed until coming up the cam lobe. When closed they saturate the primary side of the coil windings and supply the first step in the ignition process
My guess is that you used aftermarket parts. Sierra points are widely known to not line up among other issues. If you still have your original OEM points then lightly dress the contact surfaces and re-install. Aftermarket coils are the same way. They do not line up and often the center coil laminates are too far away from the flywheel magnets to supply spark at low cranking speeds. Sierra condensers are known to fail out of the box.
Third.....if you are draining fuel out the front of the carb but your plugs do not smell like fuel you may have water in your fuel.

GarageBeers · May 14, 2023

Pappy said:
Points have to be closed until coming up the cam lobe. When closed they saturate the primary side of the coil windings and supply the first step in the ignition process
My guess is that you used aftermarket parts. Sierra points are widely known to not line up among other issues. If you still have your original OEM points then lightly dress the contact surfaces and re-install. Aftermarket coils are the same way. They do not line up and often the center coil laminates are too far away from the flywheel magnets to supply spark at low cranking speeds. Sierra condensers are known to fail out of the box.
Third.....if you are draining fuel out the front of the carb but your plugs do not smell like fuel you may have water in your fuel.

Thank you for responding.
I can’t figure out how to get the points to be closed? I purchased the ignition kit from Marine Engine for this HP and year (came with brand new points and condensers). OEM right?

I have OEM coils (4.56ohms) and brand new sierra coils (10.25ohms). Wasnt sure why the brand new sierra coils had such high resistance….?

Fresh fuel no water. Carb need to be replaced?

Pappy · May 14, 2023

ME sells both OEM and aftermarket. Up to you to choose.
Hopefully you are using the OEM coils as the aftermarket seem a bit high on the primary.
Carb should not need to be replaced. Go back and check adjustments first as I outlined and go from there.

GarageBeers · May 14, 2023

Pappy said:
ME sells both OEM and aftermarket. Up to you to choose.
Hopefully you are using the OEM coils as the aftermarket seem a bit high on the primary.
Carb should not need to be replaced. Go back and check adjustments first as I outlined and go from there.

Sounds like my points not being closed is a big possible solution. Not sure how to to that

But it doesnt solve the issue of fuel coming out the intake side when I pull start/why no fuel reaching plugs?

Pappy · May 15, 2023

Lets start with one issue at a time. Find out why your points are not functioning as they should.
The fuel issue can be something as simple as you flooding the engine accidentally hoping it will start.
The fuel you are seeing coming out the front of the carburetor is delivered from suction developed by the full closing of the choke blade and is delivered only about 1.5" behind that blade so it can puddle and become visible pretty easily.

GarageBeers · May 15, 2023

Pappy said:
Lets start with one issue at a time. Find out why your points are not functioning as they should.
The fuel issue can be something as simple as you flooding the engine accidentally hoping it will start.
The fuel you are seeing coming out the front of the carburetor is delivered from suction developed by the full closing of the choke blade and is delivered only about 1.5" behind that blade so it can puddle and become visible pretty easily.

For the points- I am worried the cam lobe is worn down too much. ie, if im setting .020 at TDC, and the points dont close at base circle on cam, then the lobe is actually less than .020 tall?

Whats your opinion on choke + throttle relationship for a cold start? Full choke full throttle? Or minimal throttle?

vtflatlander · May 15, 2023

How are you setting the points.Points should be set to .020 while the point block is on the high side of the lobe. If points are set on the low side of the lobe points will always be open

GarageBeers · May 15, 2023

vtflatlander said:
How are you setting the points.Points should be set to .020 while the point block is on the high side of the lobe. If points are set on the low side of the lobe points will always be open

I have been using the richards outboard timing tool, lining up each cylinder 'T' and 'B' between the 2x hashmarks on the side of the magneto plate. With the timing tool in the center of the hashmarks, it is supposed to bring each piston to TDC, at which point I adjust the points to .020. Maybe this technique isnt ACTUALLY bringing the high side of the lobe over to TDC...? I checked this though, by watching the piston through each plug hole and confirmed each piston is at TDC during this technique

Pappy · May 15, 2023

You are close but actually backwards in your approach.
The timing tool is actually supposed to be used with an ohmeter or light to tell you exactly when the points open.
By first setting the points at .020 using the 'Top" of the cam lobe this will get you very close to the point where you can fine tune with the timing tool. Try it that way.

GarageBeers · May 15, 2023

Pappy said:
You are close but actually backwards in your approach.
The timing tool is actually supposed to be used with an ohmeter or light to tell you exactly when the points open.
By first setting the points at .020 using the 'Top" of the cam lobe this will get you very close to the point where you can fine tune with the timing tool. Try it that way.

Whats a better result- using the ohmeter to tell you exactly when they open? Or .020 feeler gauges

LaqueRatt · May 16, 2023

I have the same engine. Last year installed OMC coils and Sierra points. I played around with the points quite a bit to get them right, but I'm picky. I always just use a feeler gauge on points. Keep it simple right? So I can affirm that these parts will work just fine, but suspect you'd have any easier time with OMC points. The Sierras would just barely dial in at .20-.21.

As for the carb, something doesn't sound right. Again, keeping things simple, all I did was carefully clean the carb and put it back on. No rebuild kit. IMO seldom do you need a carb kit. It's just sort of a knee jerk reaction with the idea being to make it like new again. I just want it to work like new again.

These Fastwins are powerful, smooth, and fairly quiet motors. Once you get it dialed in I know you'll like it. Don't feel bad, I spent quite a bit of time getting mine right. This was only the 2nd motor I'd messed around with though. I've got 3 more to do now. Hopefully I learned a little something along the way and it won't take so much head-scratching.

One last thing I'll add is most of my trouble last year was due to fuel delivery. Tank and lines. You can't have any leaks or any junk it there at all. I highly recommend putting a small filter under the cowl to catch any crud before it gets into your carb. Also clear fuel lines help with seeing air bubbles, which indicate minute leaks that suck air, but might not leak out any fuel. I'm no expert though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

GarageBeers · May 16, 2023

LaqueRatt said:
I have the same engine. Last year installed OMC coils and Sierra points. I played around with the points quite a bit to get them right, but I'm picky. I always just use a feeler gauge on points. Keep it simple right? So I can affirm that these parts will work just fine, but suspect you'd have any easier time with OMC points. The Sierras would just barely dial in at .20-.21.

As for the carb, something doesn't sound right. Again, keeping things simple, all I did was carefully clean the carb and put it back on. No rebuild kit. IMO seldom do you need a carb kit. It's just sort of a knee jerk reaction with the idea being to make it like new again. I just want it to work like new again.

These Fastwins are powerful, smooth, and fairly quiet motors. Once you get it dialed in I know you'll like it. Don't feel bad, I spent quite a bit of time getting mine right. This was only the 2nd motor I'd messed around with though. I've got 3 more to do now. Hopefully I learned a little something along the way and it won't take so much head-scratching.

One last thing I'll add is most of my trouble last year was due to fuel delivery. Tank and lines. You can't have any leaks or any junk it there at all. I highly recommend putting a small filter under the cowl to catch any crud before it gets into your carb. Also clear fuel lines help with seeing air bubbles, which indicate minute leaks that suck air, but might not leak out any fuel. I'm no expert though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Amazing information. Gold. Thanks so much for responding. Means the world. I will constantly be referring to this. Thanks again

Pappy · May 16, 2023

Laqueratt
Where to start.......
As stated earlier....Sierra points are famous for not lining up. Incorrect alignment means hard to adjust and a short life from your points. Why use them. They will strand you!
You need a carb kit for the simple reason an OEM carb kit comes complete with all wear parts, float, needle and seat, gaskets that are alcohol fuel resistant, new packings and plastic bearing washers which assures no air leaks. You were keen on air leaks.....
Most fastwins came with a filter already. Clear fuel lines get hard as a rock in short order and then start leaking. If an engine comes to me with clear lines they are immediately removed. Double line gas tanks always get a full rebuild. New fuel hoses all around, no junk.
You are on the right track with some of your comments but I have a philosophy when it comes to bringing back one of these engines. Do it once and do it right. That means water pump complete if the cup is grooved, Shift rod oring at the very least to keep water out of the gearcase. New OEM carb kit after a thorough cleaning, fresh OEM coils, condensers, felt pad with a drop of oil, usually plug wires and new spark plug boots, check and adjust for full fwd gear engagement, clean and lubricate everything from the throttle handle all the way up to the mag plate bushing and retainer assembly. When done I usually have no issues for several years and I put a ton of miles on mine. We do sometimes two 100 mile runs a year up the Suwaanee River at the very least.
Anyway......this should give you some more things to do or check on your engines and maybe a couple things not to do as well as some reasoning behind why things are done that you may feel not necessary. Hope this helps.

LaqueRatt · May 18, 2023

I get where you're coming form Pappy, I really do, but I've got 5 motors now, 4 are OMC, none came to me with a filter. I know clear lines aren't the greatest, but can be valuable when tracking down small leaks, no? I'll likely replace them with better ones later. As long as the result is a good running machine, does it really matter a whole lot the route we took to get there?

Pappy · May 18, 2023

LaqueRatt said:
I get where you're coming form Pappy, I really do, but I've got 5 motors now, 4 are OMC, none came to me with a filter. I know clear lines aren't the greatest, but can be valuable when tracking down small leaks, no? I'll likely replace them with better ones later. As long as the result is a good running machine, does it really matter a whole lot the route we took to get there?

I probably have well over a hundred engines. If they did not come with a factory filter.....put one back in !! On not a single one of my engines a clear line is ever needed. Want to check line integrity on a big boat with a built in tank? THAT is where a clear line is used and then promptly removed. It is also used in conjunction with a vacuum gauge and the boat is run at the RPM the customer is having a problem. That line never remains in place. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
For a portable tank it is as easy as removing the fitting at the engine end and pumping fuel directly back into the portable tank and seeing the volume you have. Simple.
Under the cowling there is never a need for a clear line either. Want to check the line integrity? Pull the line off the carburetor and pump the bulb. Good fuel delivery? Put your thumb over the end and pump again to find a line leaking. Pull your fuel pump and you can check that while you are at it! Once you get the fuel to the fuel bowl the carburetor bowl takes care of any small bubbles anyway. You will almost always have a small stream of tiny bubbles coming through a fuel system
Clear lines are more of a hazard than they are worth. Under the cowling you have one heck of an ignition source and you have pressurized gasoline.
Stay with manufacturer recommendations when it comes to this stuff......remember others read what you write!

Pappy · May 18, 2023

LukeH said:
Whats a better result- using the ohmeter to tell you exactly when they open? Or .020 feeler gauges

After all these years of doing this I am hard pressed to tell the difference as long as you really pay attention to your .020 and by that I mean watch your points arm as you slide the feeler gauge in. Any movement by the arm to allow the feeler ga. in indicates an improper method and improper measurement. Takes a little while to get the feel for that but pretty easy to do. By far the most accurate way is to set your points then really dial it in with the timing pointer and VOM.

airshot · May 19, 2023

I add a good clear inline filter on the line going to the engine, been doing that for more years than I have fingers and toes to count on!! Works great..

LaqueRatt · May 19, 2023

I also have a box of small clear filters now that I bought from Amazon. For the record, I did not leave the clear line on the motor, but it was invaluable to me in getting my motor to run right. I found that even a small stream of bubbles in the line was causing me big trouble with how it ran. Once I got rid of those bubbles, she ran great. Just my experience as a boat noob.

GarageBeers · May 19, 2023

Pappy said:
I probably have well over a hundred engines. If they did not come with a factory filter.....put one back in !! On not a single one of my engines a clear line is ever needed. Want to check line integrity on a big boat with a built in tank? THAT is where a clear line is used and then promptly removed. It is also used in conjunction with a vacuum gauge and the boat is run at the RPM the customer is having a problem. That line never remains in place. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
For a portable tank it is as easy as removing the fitting at the engine end and pumping fuel directly back into the portable tank and seeing the volume you have. Simple.
Under the cowling there is never a need for a clear line either. Want to check the line integrity? Pull the line off the carburetor and pump the bulb. Good fuel delivery? Put your thumb over the end and pump again to find a line leaking. Pull your fuel pump and you can check that while you are at it! Once you get the fuel to the fuel bowl the carburetor bowl takes care of any small bubbles anyway. You will almost always have a small stream of tiny bubbles coming through a fuel system
Clear lines are more of a hazard than they are worth. Under the cowling you have one heck of an ignition source and you have pressurized gasoline.
Stay with manufacturer recommendations when it comes to this stuff......remember others read what you write!

I love the knowledge given here. Years of experience with what you do on these... invaluable. Thank you a ton Pappy. I can always rely on you to answer questions and provide good feedback

1962 18hp Evinrude- please help

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