2002 1436 Alumacraft and floatation pods

SteveBob

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As it stands now the rivnuts won't work, but not for any of the reasons listed above. Compressing the steel nuts in the aluminum firmly enough to keep them from spinning, crushes/pinches the aluminum. It does it enough to weaken the metal that they were installed in. Due to the beveled flange on the steel nuts, the 0.100" thick aluminum crushes paper thin on the sides of the hole. One good kick could rip them right out of the pods. So for safety sake I am back to square one in rethinking my mounting options. When using these in the past I always used them with plate or angle steel. I thought aluminum would/could have handled the rivnuts better. I think they could still work if I was able to place a washer on the rivnuts inside of the pod. That would require me to put a big hole in the pod. If I was to do that, I'd probably just bolt them on the regular way. Something I still do not want to do.

Oh well.... I can admit it when I'm wrong. Even if it sucks to do so.

At least I did the test on a piece of aluminum I had in my workshop first rather than molesting the pods.
 

gogittum

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Interesting about the compression of the aluminum. Who woulda thunk it ?? How many would've noticed it ?? Good on you for the test and the re-direction of your thoughts. Not many can do that.

Actually, I can see a definite benefit in cutting big holes in the pods. Make them on top and put water tight hatches in them and you'd have extra storage for things like oil, extra lines, whatever. Make it easier to check for water leaking in, too. Those pods would be very heavy if filled. Silver lining, eh ??
 

SteveBob

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I DO NOT WANT TO CUT BIG HOLES IN MY PODS!!!!!!!

How many times must I say that? Jeez I know I must have typed that at least twice. Put a water tight hatch on that and store your oil in it......

Has anyone here done any low temp welding? Could that be an option for me? Or is that just soldering?
 

gogittum

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Yah, yah, you've made it clear. We're just noodling on options, trying to help.....and the holes would be useful. 😁😁

It's been more than 30 years, but I did quite a bit of experimenting with the...uh...aluminum soldering/low temp...??...welding, but want to be sure we're on the same page with it.

I was at a boat show in Spokane in '83 and watched a demo where a guy punched a hole in a beer can, then used a propane torch (don't use Mapp gas - something about the oxygen) to heat it up and smear the stick onto it. It melted fine and bridged the gap fine; it flowed fine and feather edged and if it'd been regular solder, I'd've said it was a good joint.

He took an ice pick and really punched that "weld" and it was hard as rock and there was no peeling of the weld. Ice pick didn't touch it. Then he "welded" 2 pieces of aluminum together and same thing. I was mightily impressed and bought a batch of it.....and it worked extremely well for me, too.

The rest of the story: I was self-learning the appliance and refrigeration business at the time in a small, backwoods town in the mountains of north Idaho and a very common complaint was where people's refrigerator freezers had iced up and they'd used knives to chip the ice out. Of course, with those old stamped evaporators, they punched holes in them and all the freon escaped. How to fix ??

I tried the green "epoxy" sticks that you melt on and a couple of other things, but nothing would stick well enuf under that pressure in that environment. The aluminum solder sticks seemed a good bet.

There's a coating on the aluminum that I had to sand off, then used a solvent to clean oil off it and soldered it up. It worked wonderfully well, looked great (I'm well aware of what a cold solder joint looks like) and I went ahead and charged it up.

Next day, the people called me back - no cooling. Long story a bit shorter, careful experimenting showed me that the stuff is porous. Looked very good, but pressurize the system and put soap solution on it and you could see it foaming. Never did find a cure that really worked and we threw a lot of old refers away.

OK, I know that Gore-Tex works by letting air molecules thru but blocks the larger water molecules. (in my experience, Gore-Tex doesn't work very well, but anyway....it's a good theory) Will this stuff be the same ?? I dunno - never tried that, cause it made none in my application and I was very busy, but I tend to think it "would" block water. Under pressure, as in underwater ?? Again, I dunno. It would be worth experimenting with, cause the stuff makes an extremely strong bond and is rock solid - much stronger than the aluminum.

It's easy to see when you've got the heat right. Melt the stick on and it beads/balls up - round edge. Heat it some more and it flows out very nicely. Heat it too much and the aluminum melts.
 

SteveBob

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Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.... I truly apologize.

I'm just having a bummer middle east - Ex Navy Corpsman - USMC "Doc" - Beirut 1983 Vet kind of thing going on here. I'll be ok.....

I do appreciate and value others ideas and experiences from others. Asking is the easiest way to get a thousand opinions. Even if half of the opinions are repeats of the same from earlier in the thread. LOL j/k From what I can see from the videos I have watched online I was pretty impressed with the stuff. Some of the videos I watched were the How to use the low heat welding rods, common mistakes. water tight welds, and attaching low/medium pressure line-pipe fittings, All using the low temperature welding rods and a propane and or matt gas torch or OA torch. I think I have it mapped out how I'd do it. Now I will have to run down to Ace Hardware to get the stuff I need to do a few tests......

Rats.....

It may be a while before I can sneak my allowance out of my wife's purse LOL!!! Sometimes being retired sucks LOL!!!

Thanks for your input.
 

gogittum

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No feathers ruffled - I had to grin at that. Keep us posted. I'll be interested in your experience with the aluminum welding/soldering. I seem to remember the guy saying to use propane. Don't use Mapp gas.
 

onthewater102

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I'm not re-reading 2 pages worth of discussion to find a detail - if the pods are filled with foam you won't want to use the aluminum welding rods as the aluminum all around the patch site will heat up and foul up the foam.

I wouldn't use them anyway as the aluminum has to be heated to the point that it will warp and deform before the rod will bond to it, so it won't be a neat flat surface when you're done.
 

LDUBS

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Are those aluminum rods intended to be used with propane really going to have the strength for the forces that the pods will be encountering? I wouldn't think so.
 

gogittum

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I dunno, DUBS. Beyond the evaporators, I didn't do a lot of experimenting with the stuff, but I remember it being hell for tough.....rock hard. It isn't like regular lead solder at all. Punch a hole in the bottom of a beer can and weld it with that stuff and you can't drive an ice pick thru it. Barely makes a mark..

I would think that if you had 2 or more sides welded to prevent flexing, it would hold thru almost anything.
 

LDUBS

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gogittum said:
I dunno, DUBS. Beyond the evaporators, I didn't do a lot of experimenting with the stuff, but I remember it being hell for tough.....rock hard. It isn't like regular lead solder at all. Punch a hole in the bottom of a beer can and weld it with that stuff and you can't drive an ice pick thru it. Barely makes a mark..

I would think that if you had 2 or more sides welded to prevent flexing, it would hold thru almost anything.

Thanks Gogittum. That sounds encouraging.
 

LDUBS

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gogittum said:
It'll be interesting to see what he finally comes up with. He's got me "kinda" thinking about them for my boat, too, but prob'ly not.

There is a new primer on float pods posted on the TinBoat home page. I learned some things. I was also surprised by some things. But I've never been in a jon boat and don't really know much about how they handle.
 

SteveBob

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Well after exhausting every concept I have come up with, I have decided that I can't ignore the elephant in the room any longer. It comes down to weld them on or bolt them on. I refuse to pay a welder $120 an hour with a 4 hour minimum (best price I could find around here). So the only other option I can see is my least favorite. Cutting big holes in the pods and bolting them on. I ordered a pair of round 6" waterproof service hatches with "O" ring seals that I will be mounting on top of the pods. I will incorporate 2 pieces of angle aluminum inside each of the pods and inside the boat to strengthen the bolt on connections. I'll use 3/8" stainless hardware to mount the pods and 3M 5200 sealant/adhesive to keep things watertight.

So maybe before long I should be placing the boat once more in the lake besides just leaving it sitting on the side of my house.
 

gogittum

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I understand your reluctance to cut the holes but I think when all is said and done, you'll find them to be a benefit for several reasons. Keep us posted.
 

SteveBob

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Yes I checked with several schools and the only one that said they might be willing gave me this caveat, only if I'm willing to wait as long as up to the end of the school year and that is if they would even get to it this year.
 

eeshaw

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LDUBS said:
gogittum said:
It'll be interesting to see what he finally comes up with. He's got me "kinda" thinking about them for my boat, too, but prob'ly not.

There is a new primer on float pods posted on the TinBoat home page. I learned some things. I was also surprised by some things. But I've never been in a jon boat and don't really know much about how they handle.

The primer is by Dustin Apple, an avid bow fishing man. Good guy for the most part but he did makes some errors in his calculations. The biggest one was referencing 64.2 lbs., it should be 62.4. Not a huge mistake but he has his thoughts on how to do it.
 
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