how many guides?

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Sinkingfast

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Given 2 poles..both 5-6..one has 7 including tip..other has 5 including tip..One is a fenwick other is shamano.

Whats the going talk about number of guides? If there is a link thats good to..
 
Huh, your post made me count. My 5-6 spinning rod has 5 + the tip. It is not an expensive high end rod. I am guessing a spinning rod will need fewer guns than a casting rod. I also think if casting is being done, I wouldn't want any more guides than minimally needed. I just don't know what is minimally needed.

OK, my honest answer should be heck if I know. So, the following is not based on any professional expertise or knowledge base. If I were considering those two rods and they were spinning rods, I would not get hung on on the count of guides. If boat rods using conventional reels, then maybe more guides. If baitcasters, then I don't know as I don't use those.

I have two 7-6 Kokanee rods I use to troll for trout. One has 11 guides + the tip. The other has 8 guides + tip. To be honest, I didn't know this until 10 minutes ago. I never noticed a difference in use.

My approx 40 year old 10' surf spinning rod has 5 + tip. My newer fancy graphite 10' surf spinning rod has 8 + tip. Again, I wouldn't have known before 10 minutes ago. I do notice a difference because one is fiberglass and one is graphite. Has nothing to do with number of guides.
 
I was told years back rhat having more guides made it a more heavy duty rod as far as casting rods go. For spinning rods they have fewer guides to start, however again the more, the heavier duty the rod...now, this might very well be BS for all I know....just what I have been told over many years...????
 
Another, you made me go count! :)

We have mostly St Croix rods in a number of different models. Mostly spinning. Shortest is 6' 3". Most have 7 guides + tip. More if 7' or longer. Our two higher end models, have 9 guides + tip. I think they are 6' 8" rods. The guides on those two, are the style that have a smaller diameter, but are further away from the blank. We have an older version of one of those, that has the "normal" style guides, and only 7 + 1. So, if spinning, one possibility.

4 + 1, doesn't sound like enough, even for a 5 1/2' rod. Maybe you are talking about those broomstick rods for deep sea fishing, jigging a 5lb weight with multiple lures? If so, outside of using some a few times, completly out of my element.
 
Shimano Quickfire spinning from 15 years ago or so...well put together but the first guide is rather far away from the reel and the braided line wraps around blank while casting. Was gonna add guide nearer the reel..
 
I was told years back rhat having more guides made it a more heavy duty rod as far as casting rods go. For spinning rods they have fewer guides to start, however again the more, the heavier duty the rod...now, this might very well be BS for all I know....just what I have been told over many years...????

It makes sense to me.
 
I used to build rods, and when learning the basics, I learned a few things about guides. There are a few main elements to it:

1. Guides control the line during the cast. This is ESPECIALLY true with spinning rods, where the line whirls off the reel in a spiral. The first guide captures the spiral, then the next couple of guides narrow it down, until it is almost straight when it goes through the running guides and tip. On a conventional rod, you have some side to side motion, but not so much, hence the bottom guides are not nearly as big.

2. Guides transfer sensation to the blank. To SOME degree, guides transfer sensation to the blank, so you can detect taps, bumps, hits, etc, and you can feel when your lure is bumping bottom and so on. More guides transfer better, BUT if the guides are heavy, it can dampen the whole rod, so it's a balancing act. That is why the finest guides are as light as possible for their intended use. So alloy guide frames with SIC guides were the cream of the crop for awhile, but now there are even lighter guides.

3. Guides transfer the power of the fish to the blank. This is one of the other factors in how many guides you use. Theoretically, you could get away with only a tip guide. It would work, but then ALL the pressure would only be on the tip of the rod. If you only have two guides and a tip, it would have 3 points of contact and so on. The taper of the rod has something to do with how many guides you want. As mentioned above, a thick, broomstick-type rod doesn't need too many guides, because there is very little taper, and it's a very strong blank. A light steelhead/salmon rod with light action, but made for very heavy fish, tend to have many guides, to transfer the load across the entire blank.

4. Guides hold the line away from the blank so it doesn't rub. This is for traditional CASTING rods. When a fish bends the rod, if there aren't enough guides, the line will rub the blank in between the guides. You can make higher profile guides, but then the leverage of the taller guides will make the rod want to flip over. Because of this, many custom rodbuilders have gone to "Acid wrap" or "Spiral wrap" guide systems. This is where the lowest guide is on top of the rod, like a normal casting rod, but over the next 2-4 guides, transitions to the guides being on the bottom of the rod, like a spinning rod.

In my opinion, Acid wrapped rods are superior. Because of this transition, you can use much lighter guide frames, as the line only pulls on the guide, and is not trying to crush it like a typical casting guide. Hence, you can use a lighter weight guides, even single-foot "fly" guides.

My very favorite conventional rod has a 7'0" Mag Bass taper, XH power blank, with a Shimano Triton 100 reel, filled with 30# braid. It is spiral wrapped with 4 lightweight double-footed Alconite guides for the transition, and 5 fly guides to a light framed tip. This rod is so light in the hand, some guys almost worry, but it's a BEAST when you hook up to a fish. It's a joy to fish with, and for awhile, guys who tried it demanded that I build them one.

I don't build for anyone else anymore, but I still appreciate a well-built rod.

So in summary, the guides on a rod are important to SOME degree, but a quality blank and intelligent build are probably more important. Good guides can make the most of any blank, but they cannot fix a slow, dead-feeling blank.

So for a heavy catfishing or shark fishing blank, go with heavy and powerful, because you are not constantly casting and waiting for that subtle bite. For your finest finesse rod, where you are making long casts and drifting light lures in deep, fast currents, you want the best blank you can afford with numerous guides of the lightest build for the power you need.

This is just what comes to the top of my head. There are many books and forums dedicated to this subject, and I am not an expert, just a casual rodbuilder, so take this just my opinion.
 
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Shimano Quickfire spinning from 15 years ago or so...well put together but the first guide is rather far away from the reel and the braided line wraps around blank while casting. Was gonna add guide nearer the reel..
You could, but you are probably better to remove the bottom three guides, move the lowest one down, then space the rest accordingly.
 
I used to build rods, and when learning the basics, I learned a few things about guides. There are a few main elements to it:

1. Guides control the line during the cast. This is ESPECIALLY true with spinning rods, where the line whirls off the reel in a spiral. The first guide captures the spiral, then the next couple of guides narrow it down, until it is almost straight when it goes through the running guides and tip. On a conventional rod, you have some side to side motion, but not so much, hence the bottom guides are not nearly as big.

2. Guides transfer sensation to the blank. To SOME degree, guides transfer sensation to the blank, so you can detect taps, bumps, hits, etc, and you can feel when your lure is bumping bottom and so on. More guides transfer better, BUT if the guides are heavy, it can dampen the whole rod, so it's a balancing act. That is why the finest guides are as light as possible for their intended use. So alloy guide frames with SIC guides were the cream of the crop for awhile, but now there are even lighter guides.

3. Guides transfer the power of the fish to the blank. This is one of the other factors in how many guides you use. Theoretically, you could get away with only a tip guide. It would work, but then ALL the pressure would only be on the tip of the rod. If you only have two guides and a tip, it would have 3 points of contact and so on. The taper of the rod has something to do with how many guides you want. As mentioned above, a thick, broomstick-type rod doesn't need too many guides, because there is very little taper, and it's a very strong blank. A light steelhead/salmon rod with light action, but made for very heavy fish, tend to have many guides, to transfer the load across the entire blank.

4. Guides hold the line away from the blank so it doesn't rub. This is for traditional CASTING rods. When a fish bends the rod, if there aren't enough guides, the line will rub the blank in between the guides. You can make higher profile guides, but then the leverage of the taller guides will make the rod want to flip over. Because of this, many custom rodbuilders have gone to "Acid wrap" or "Spiral wrap" guide systems. This is where the lowest guide is on top of the rod, like a normal casting rod, but over the next 2-4 guides, transitions to the guides being on the bottom of the rod, like a spinning rod.

In my opinion, Acid wrapped rods are superior. Because of this transition, you can use much lighter guide frames, as the line only pulls on the guide, and is not trying to crush it like a typical casting guide. Hence, you can use a lighter weight guides, even single-foot "fly" guides.

My very favorite conventional rod has a 7'0" Mag Bass taper, XH power blank, with a Shimano Triton 100 reel, filled with 30# braid. It is spiral wrapped with 4 lightweight double-footed Alconite guides for the transition, and 5 fly guides to a light framed tip. This rod is so light in the hand, some guys almost worry, but it's a BEAST when you hook up to a fish. It's a joy to fish with, and for awhile, guys who tried it demanded that I build them one.

I don't build for anyone else anymore, but I still appreciate a well-built rod.

So in summary, the guides on a rod are important to SOME degree, but a quality blank and intelligent build are probably more important. Good guides can make the most of any blank, but they cannot fix a slow, dead-feeling blank.

So for a heavy catfishing or shark fishing blank, go with heavy and powerful, because you are not constantly casting and waiting for that subtle bite. For your finest finesse rod, where you are making long casts and drifting light lures in deep, fast currents, you want the best blank you can afford with numerous guides of the lightest build for the power you need.
Sounds pretty scientific to me, often wondered why some rods are so expensive. One day I hope to try a really good rod to experience the actual difference!!
 
Thanx for the replies. I had briefly considered moving existing and adding a guide. Can't spend the time to do that and I can work another service call..make 100.00 and buy new.

I remember reading all the field and stream mags way back around 1975 when I fished a lot. There was a lot of talk about rods and guides at the time...don't remember much of it!
 
Sounds pretty scientific to me, often wondered why some rods are so expensive. One day I hope to try a really good rod to experience the actual difference!!
I suspect its kinda like the princess who could feel a pea under 7 mattresses..weight would be easier to detect I suppose..

The wife asks me why I have kept her for 43 years. I tell her if I were to close my eyes I probably could not tell the difference between any of ya's...she gives me the stink eye..
 
Sounds pretty scientific to me, often wondered why some rods are so expensive. One day I hope to try a really good rod to experience the actual difference!!

Actually, from the fisherman's point of view, it's pretty simple. A good rod feels light in the hand, is very sensitive, has great control when fighting a fish and just feels GOOD.

Sometimes the price tag and brand matter. Grab a G. Loomis rod and shake it in your hand, then grab an Ugly Stick, and you will immediately notice a difference.

I have ruined a bunch of guys on my boat. After I have caught a bunch of fish and they haven't, I ask them to switch rods. The reaction is sometimes pretty funny, depending on the guy. Some of them yell, "HEY! YOU WERE CHEATING!!! WHAT IS THIS THING? ELECTRIC?!? I can feel... EVERYTHING!"

That kind of sums it up, too. A high quality finesse rod, loaded with 12# braid is amazingly sensitive. You feel every tick, bump and thump. It's like an acoustic guitar versus an electric one. But you only know it once you try it. If you are happy with your current gear, and catch lots of fish, be happy with what you have. No need to go down that road. It's a slippery one. Once you get spoiled, it's kind of hard to go back.
 
Thanx for the replies. I had briefly considered moving existing and adding a guide. Can't spend the time to do that and I can work another service call..make 100.00 and buy new.

I remember reading all the field and stream mags way back around 1975 when I fished a lot. There was a lot of talk about rods and guides at the time...don't remember much of it!
Same here. Read a lot about it back in 70-80 but do not remember much about it.
 
Actually, from the fisherman's point of view, it's pretty simple. A good rod feels light in the hand, is very sensitive, has great control when fighting a fish and just feels GOOD.

Sometimes the price tag and brand matter. Grab a G. Loomis rod and shake it in your hand, then grab an Ugly Stick, and you will immediately notice a difference.

I have ruined a bunch of guys on my boat. After I have caught a bunch of fish and they haven't, I ask them to switch rods. The reaction is sometimes pretty funny, depending on the guy. Some of them yell, "HEY! YOU WERE CHEATING!!! WHAT IS THIS THING? ELECTRIC?!? I can feel... EVERYTHING!"

That kind of sums it up, too. A high quality finesse rod, loaded with 12# braid is amazingly sensitive. You feel every tick, bump and thump. It's like an acoustic guitar versus an electric one. But you only know it once you try it. If you are happy with your current gear, and catch lots of fish, be happy with what you have. No need to go down that road. It's a slippery one. Once you get spoiled, it's kind of hard to go back.
Yea....that is why I am kind of afraid to try one!!!
 
Actually, from the fisherman's point of view, it's pretty simple. A good rod feels light in the hand, is very sensitive, has great control when fighting a fish and just feels GOOD.

Sometimes the price tag and brand matter. Grab a G. Loomis rod and shake it in your hand, then grab an Ugly Stick, and you will immediately notice a difference.

I have ruined a bunch of guys on my boat. After I have caught a bunch of fish and they haven't, I ask them to switch rods. The reaction is sometimes pretty funny, depending on the guy. Some of them yell, "HEY! YOU WERE CHEATING!!! WHAT IS THIS THING? ELECTRIC?!? I can feel... EVERYTHING!"

That kind of sums it up, too. A high quality finesse rod, loaded with 12# braid is amazingly sensitive. You feel every tick, bump and thump. It's like an acoustic guitar versus an electric one. But you only know it once you try it. If you are happy with your current gear, and catch lots of fish, be happy with what you have. No need to go down that road. It's a slippery one. Once you get spoiled, it's kind of hard to go back.

Sometimes its good you don't know what you are missing. ;) The rods I mentioned with more guides: St Croix Legend Tournament Bass and a G-Loomis NRX+. Both very light rods.

Way back when, use to have a collection of Ugly Stick Lites. My son got a job at Gander Mnt when he was in college. Had a great discount on St Croix rods. I think it was like 60% off, plus free name engraving, plus another 30% employee discount. That got us hooked and could never go back, now.
 
Sometimes its good you don't know what you are missing. ;) The rods I mentioned with more guides: St Croix Legend Tournament Bass and a G-Loomis NRX+. Both very light rods.

Way back when, use to have a collection of Ugly Stick Lites. My son got a job at Gander Mnt when he was in college. Had a great discount on St Croix rods. I think it was like 60% off, plus free name engraving, plus another 30% employee discount. That got us hooked and could never go back, now.

I graduated from fiberglass to one of the early Uglystiks way back in the 70's. I thought that composite rod was amazing, and I guess for its time it was. I still have that rod.
 
You guys are right to some degree, but nowadays, a decent rod doesn't have to be expensive.

YES, the Loomis and St. Croix and some Lami rods are nose-bleed high priced. But some of the Lew's combos are pretty nice.

LOOK AT THIS DEAL JUST TODAY:
Resized_20230405_153510.jpeg

If you didn't catch it, look closer:

20230405_153510.jpg

Now this isn't the greatest rod, but it's an IM-7 graphite blank that feels pretty good in the hand. Better than ANY fiberglass rod, and better than many older graphite rods. Good guides, great handle and grip.

The only thing wrong with this combo, in my opinion, is that the reel is too big. It should have a size 2500 rod to be properly balanced, not that 3500, which shares the same frame with the 4000. Even so, the reel is buttery-smooth, and will get the job done.

The original price of $68 actually isn't too bad, but for $13?!?? WHAT A DEAL! Check your local Walmart, and you might find one of the last ones. They are now gone here.
 
You guys are right to some degree, but nowadays, a decent rod doesn't have to be expensive.

YES, the Loomis and St. Croix and some Lami rods are nose-bleed high priced. But some of the Lew's combos are pretty nice.

LOOK AT THIS DEAL JUST TODAY:
View attachment 114203

If you didn't catch it, look closer:

View attachment 114204

Now this isn't the greatest rod, but it's an IM-7 graphite blank that feels pretty good in the hand. Better than ANY fiberglass rod, and better than many older graphite rods. Good guides, great handle and grip.

The only thing wrong with this combo, in my opinion, is that the reel is too big. It should have a size 2500 rod to be properly balanced, not that 3500, which shares the same frame with the 4000. Even so, the reel is buttery-smooth, and will get the job done.

The original price of $68 actually isn't too bad, but for $13?!?? WHAT A DEAL! Check your local Walmart, and you might find one of the last ones. They are now gone here.

The two Kokanee rods I use for trolling for trout are Lamiglas (pricey) and Eagle Claw (cheap). If I could only keep one I think I would choose the $29 Eagle Claw.
 

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