trailer questions

[eshaw]

I've got a trailer that I bought used for use on my 16 foot all welded jon boat project that weighs in at 680 lbs., not a skinny minny. The jon can weigh anywhere from 1400 to 1500 lbs. depending on how I have it configured. My rear trailer support is directly under the transom and the bottom of the boat is supported by 4 bunks laid flat, they might extend past the transom an inch. No carpeting on the bunks, just some pads I bought from Bass Pro to go between the lumber 2x4s and the hull. There's a long shaft 40hp Yamaha 4 stroke for main power and on the port side of it is a 9.9 Mercury long shaft remote kicker. An aluminum truck tool box has been sunk into the rear bench seat and holds life jackets, running light, starter batteries for both motors and a tool pouch. Needless to say there's some weight back there! That doesn't include a full 6 gallon fuel tank. Up front is an elevated deck for my bow fishing habit and the steering is mounted to that as well as a 24v trolling motor. I also have a stand up console mounted to the front bench seat over what used to be a live well. The live well now contains two trolling motor deep cycle batteries and wiring. This sums up where all the weight comes from for the boat. On average that's 2130 lbs..

The tongue weight on the trailer is over 300 pounds and it may just be me but that seems on the heavy side. I've adjusted the trailer to sit level when hitched and that's how the tongue weight was determined. So giving 10%-15% tongue weight it should be 213-320 lbs..

Would any of you think this is something to delve into deeper or let it go? I've been kicking around the idea of sliding the axle forward some. I believe this would relieve some of the tongue weight but given the configuration of the trailer it would be a big PIA. The axle has been mounted to what appears to be a carriage made from HD angle iron so the whole thing would have to slide forward. Another thought I've been having is installing another axle under it so it's a tandem configuration but that's also a lot of work and a pricey alternative to me but it would also do away with the carriage or what ever you want to call it.

Give me your thoughts and impressions, what would you do?

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

Have you actually weighed your boat and trailer as it would be when towed? Is your tow vehicle and hitch rated for 300 pounds of tongue weight? It sounds like you have an adjustable axle. You could move it and see what your tongue weight is and see how it tows.

 

[WV1951]

Assuming you have an adjustable winch mount, I would first experiment with moving the boat back just a bit on the trailer since you have your trailer frame at the transom now. You could extend your bunks to match and then check your tongue weight. Every inch you move it will take weight from the tongue and add to the part behind the wheels, which will add up in a hurry. Might be surprised what only 6 inches will do. With four 2x4's as bunks, they would easily hold the transom weight, although remember that your rollers in the middle of the trailer support most of the boat's weight.

 

[LDUBS]

I guess I'm scratching my head about your concern. If your target is 10% - 15% supported by the hitch ball, then isn't 300# OK as long as that doesn't exceed the maximum rating of your hitch. Of course that assumes your boat+trailer GVW is really 2130 pounds. If you want to be closer to 213# tongue weight, and you cannot practically shift gear towards the back of the boat, then I think WV'51 is right on the money - shift the boat back. I would move the axle as a last resort.

Because you have a lot of mods to the boat, I agree that taking it to a scale to confirm the total package weight would be worthwhile just for your peace of mind.

Not to muddy the waters, but my old EzLoader trailer called for tongue weight to be between 5% and 10% of total boat/trailer/gear weight. You might want to check your trailer manufacturer's web site to get their recommendation.

Whatever the case, here is hoping only minor adjustments are needed.

 

[eshaw]

Have you actually weighed your boat and trailer as it would be when towed? Is your tow vehicle and hitch rated for 300 pounds of tongue weight? It sounds like you have an adjustable axle. You could move it and see what your tongue weight is and see how it tows.

The combined weight of the package is 2130 lbs.. I'm relatively sure the bumper hitch is rated for at least 500 lbs.. The axle is an adjustable model but it's not easily done so I'd like to avoid doing it if possible.

 

[eshaw]

Assuming you have an adjustable winch mount, I would first experiment with moving the boat back just a bit on the trailer since you have your trailer frame at the transom now. You could extend your bunks to match and then check your tongue weight. Every inch you move it will take weight from the tongue and add to the part behind the wheels, which will add up in a hurry. Might be surprised what only 6 inches will do. With four 2x4's as bunks, they would easily hold the transom weight, although remember that your rollers in the middle of the trailer support most of the boat's weight.

The winch mount isn't adjustable, it's fixed in place. No rollers under the keel. There's a welded seam that runs right down the middle of the boat, this is why I have it setting on four bunks. I will take your suggestion and move the boat back on the trailer a few inches and take it to the scale and see how much the tongue weight changes since it's relatively close by. I don't like to trailer the boat without the transom being fully supported. That will at least let me know how far to move the axle forward if need be.

 

[eshaw]

LDUBS, "Not to muddy the waters, but my old EzLoader trailer called for tongue weight to be between 5% and 10% of total boat/trailer/gear weight. You might want to check your trailer manufacturer's web site to get their recommendation."

I wish I had a manufacturers plate for the trailer. I unfortunately don't know who manufactured it.

 

[LDUBS]

For whatever it is worth I would think a trailer that weighs in at 680 with 14" tires probably has pretty darn good hauling capacity.

I hope tweaking the tongue weight is relatively painless.

 

[WV1951]

You don't need to take it to the scales. If you have a bathroom scale, lay a small board across it, raise your tongue with a lever, stand a 2x4 or similar under the tongue, set it back down on the scale and you will have your weight. I would be a bit leery of putting 300 lbs. on a bumper hitch.
If your winch is fixed, can you extend to bow stop with a couple of pieces of flat stock? Most of the weight is on the trailer, so extending your bunks a few inches shouldn't put any stress on the transom. Four 2x4's would easily handle what little weight would actually be on them.
Moving your axle would be a major job.
Have you double checked to make sure your trailer frame is not independent of the axle frame.
My trailer frame sets into channels supported by the axle, and is secured together with the fender mounting bolts.

 

[JL8Jeff]

Wow, 1400-1500 lbs sounds like the maxed out weight for a 16' jon, does that include people? My Lowe is rated at 1100lbs gear/people and it weighs 425 to start with. Anyway, I've had several boats where I had to move the axle or move the bunks back to get the tongue weight manageable. It sounds like you need to get more weight off the tongue still. Can you even lift it up by hand to get it onto the hitch ball? My Jersey Speed Skiff was a 16' fiberglass boat with a 350 Chevy engine mounted in the middle and I had to move the boat/bunks back a bit to lighten the tongue. I would have had to redrill holes in the I-beam frame to move the axle and there were already several sets of holes which did not work for what I needed. I think the main thing is to make sure the boat/trailer is set up safely for towing an keep your boat supported. That speed skiff trailer had 4x6 bunks mounted vertically so the boat was supported very well. With all your weight, you might want to think about bigger bunks that can be moved back, but you would need to find a way to move your winch mount back as well. Do you have any pictures of the setup?

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

My trailer frame sets into channels supported by the axle, and is secured together with the fender mounting bolts.

My trailer is the same.
Lower the tongue all the way down put jack stands or blocking under the rear of the trailer, raise the tongue your tires should be off the ground. Pull the fender mounting bolts and move the axle.

 

[eshaw]

Wow, 1400-1500 lbs sounds like the maxed out weight for a 16' jon, does that include people? My Lowe is rated at 1100lbs gear/people and it weighs 425 to start with. Anyway, I've had several boats where I had to move the axle or move the bunks back to get the tongue weight manageable. It sounds like you need to get more weight off the tongue still. Can you even lift it up by hand to get it onto the hitch ball? My Jersey Speed Skiff was a 16' fiberglass boat with a 350 Chevy engine mounted in the middle and I had to move the boat/bunks back a bit to lighten the tongue. I would have had to redrill holes in the I-beam frame to move the axle and there were already several sets of holes which did not work for what I needed. I think the main thing is to make sure the boat/trailer is set up safely for towing an keep your boat supported. That speed skiff trailer had 4x6 bunks mounted vertically so the boat was supported very well. With all your weight, you might want to think about bigger bunks that can be moved back, but you would need to find a way to move your winch mount back as well. Do you have any pictures of the setup?

Nope, doesn't include me or a friend. I have a tongue jack for raising it onto the hitch ball. Are you kidding? If I tried to dead lift 300 lbs. I'd have things popping out of places that they shouldn't! I know it can be towed safely. My hitch is rated for 6K on the truck and the tongue weight for the receiver is 600. The coupler rating on the trailer is 3500 lbs. so I know I'm good there. If worse came to worse I could move the winch mount, I'd just prefer not to if I can.

 

[eshaw]

pic of transom on trailer

 

[eshaw]

Picture of carriage

 

[eshaw]

You can see that the axle carriage is attached to the frame rails with 1/2 inch square bolts, U-bolts, whatever they're called. The frame rails also have had extra frame members added for more strength side to side. The way it's setup now I can step out of the boat and onto the ground from standing in the boat. I like it low so I can float it off in shallow areas.

 

[WV1951]

My trailer frame sets into channels supported by the axle, and is secured together with the fender mounting bolts.

My trailer is the same.
Lower the tongue all the way down put jack stands or blocking under the rear of the trailer, raise the tongue your tires should be off the ground. Pull the fender mounting bolts and move the axle.

I have already adjusted my axle forward. I had 6" of adjustment left, and I moved he winch back 6". Once I get the boat back on the trailer, I will weigh tongue weight.

 

[WV1951]

The combined weight of the package is 2130 lbs.. I'm relatively sure the bumper hitch is rated for at least 500 lbs.. The axle is an adjustable model but it's not easily done so I'd like to avoid doing it if possible.

Nope, doesn't include me or a friend. I have a tongue jack for raising it onto the hitch ball. Are you kidding? If I tried to dead lift 300 lbs. I'd have things popping out of places that they shouldn't! I know it can be towed safely. My hitch is rated for 6K on the truck and the tongue weight for the receiver is 600. The coupler rating on the trailer is 3500 lbs. so I know I'm good there. If worse came to worse I could move the winch mount, I'd just prefer not to if I can.

I am confused. I was assuming you had a bumper hitch, but then you mention your hitch is rated for 6k.

 

[JL8Jeff]

Sounds like you might be a little overloaded but regardless, I think you want to get at least 100 lbs off the tongue weight. It looks like you would need to get the boat off the trailer, remove the bunk pieces where the carriage u-bolts go to the frame to move the carriage forward. Then cut some new relief grooves (where the u-bolts are) in those bunk pieces to bolt them back down. It's a bit of work but I think it would be worth it.

 

[eshaw]

JL8Jeff, that's exactly what I did today.

Thanks for all the opinions and insight guys. I'm trying to get everything on this trailer ironed out before a complete tear down to pretty it up some. It's still a work in progress. Once I get the balancing for the trailer done it'll get all new bearings, seals, wiring, paint, etc.. Thanks again.

 

[eshaw]

Got the boat off the trailer today and moved the undercarriage forward 10 inches. This gave me a tongue weight of 235 lbs., a big improvement over the 320 lbs. I did have.