Wire schematic help

[Tbmyer88]

Hey guys? I'm not seeing an actual ground indicator on the schematic that Tbmyer posted.
(I'll admit the schematic is pretty small for these old guy eyes.)
That makes me think the mfgr may not have wired the boat using a common ground.

Tbmyer; Does the battery negative actually have a wire that connects to the boat hull, very near the battery?

Roger

Some one else told me the same thing. I need to find the common ground??

 

[Tbmyer88]

Hey guys? I'm not seeing an actual ground indicator on the schematic that Tbmyer posted.
(I'll admit the schematic is pretty small for these old guy eyes.)
That makes me think the mfgr may not have wired the boat using a common ground.

Tbmyer; Does the battery negative actually have a wire that connects to the boat hull, very near the battery?

Roger

I do not see a connection to the hull. Unless it’s buried under the foam under the rear corner deck.

 

[Tbmyer88]

Oohhh. Connectors broken off......there's a monkey wrench in the works. OK.....you should be able to run the engine without the gauges.

Are you saying you "lost" the other side of the purple wire that you cut?

You shouldn't need to bypass them, in the true sense of the word. You should still be able to operate the boat with them still hooked up. They may not tell you anything useful., but they shouldn't keep the engine from running. (Do tape off those that go to the broken gauge connections.)

Do you get anything that resembles electrical power? At this point, I suggest you double-check all your fuses. You may have popped one that's not obvious.

Roger

We’ll found this today…

 

[Tbmyer88]

Oohhh. Connectors broken off......there's a monkey wrench in the works. OK.....you should be able to run the engine without the gauges.

Are you saying you "lost" the other side of the purple wire that you cut?

You shouldn't need to bypass them, in the true sense of the word. You should still be able to operate the boat with them still hooked up. They may not tell you anything useful., but they shouldn't keep the engine from running. (Do tape off those that go to the broken gauge connections.)

Do you get anything that resembles electrical power? At this point, I suggest you double-check all your fuses. You may have popped one that's not obvious.

Roger

This is the connectors that broke off

 

[Tbmyer88]

Check the main fuse on the outboard. If by chance the key was on while you were snipping wires, may have accidentally shorted it out. It should crank without any gauges hooked in.

Also make sure it didn't get bumped into gear. Been there done that!

Dare I ask what’s happens if you bump it in gear??

 

[LDUBS]

Hey guys? I'm not seeing an actual ground indicator on the schematic that Tbmyer posted.
(I'll admit the schematic is pretty small for these old guy eyes.)
That makes me think the mfgr may not have wired the boat using a common ground.

Tbmyer; Does the battery negative actually have a wire that connects to the boat hull, very near the battery?

Roger

Looks like black wire from batt to a ground bus in the console fuse panel. Red from batt with 30A fuse to same fuse panel.

 

[LDUBS]

Dare I ask what’s happens if you bump it in gear??

You cannot start the motor when it is in gear. Needs to be shift back to neutral.

 

[Tbmyer88]

You cannot start the motor when it is in gear. Needs to be shift back to neutral.

It’s in neutral. Sorry I though mr giggles was saying do not put the motor in gear while running the boat on water muffs.

 

[Tbmyer88]

Looks like black wire from batt to a ground bus in the console fuse panel. Red from batt with 30A fuse to same fuse panel.

Ok so I’m restudying it again. When I replaced the front deck I did not re install the courtesy light in the bow. Would that effect anything?

 

[GTS225]

We’ll found this today…

That would do it. Fuse blown?
The green stuff looks nasty as well. Fix that first....use good quality components.

By chance, did you do a lot of starter cranking that might have burnt that wire up?

Roger

 

[GTS225]

This is the connectors that broke off

Not a huge deal.....just don't let it touch ground.

Roger

 

[GTS225]

Looks like black wire from batt to a ground bus in the console fuse panel. Red from batt with 30A fuse to same fuse panel.

Yep.....saw that. What I don't see is a connection to the boat's hull, like in automotive practices. If he's trying to use the hull as a common ground, it's not goiing to work.

Tbmyer......you might want to pull apart those "gang" plugs to make sure there's no corrosion in them, too.

Roger

 

[Tbmyer88]

That would do it. Fuse blown?
The green stuff looks nasty as well. Fix that first....use good quality components.

By chance, did you do a lot of starter cranking that might have burnt that wire up?

Roger

Fuse is blown and the red wire coming off the rectifier is melted in two.

Yes. First time I put it in the water took about 30 min of trying to get it started. I only held the key down 5-6 sec at a time tho. I’ve only taken it out 5 times. Second trip out took 20 min to get started and the choke solenoid melted on that one.

 

[Tbmyer88]

Yep.....saw that. What I don't see is a connection to the boat's hull, like in automotive practices. If he's trying to use the hull as a common ground, it's not goiing to work.

Tbmyer......you might want to pull apart those "gang" plugs to make sure there's no corrosion in them, too.

Roger

Ok good idea I’ll check those.

 

[DaleH]

FWIW I have NEVER, EVER had any boat with a ground to the HULL! Especially any TIN boat ... but what do I know, I've only wired 20-30 boats ...

 

[GTS225]

FWIW I have NEVER, EVER had any boat with a ground to the HULL! Especially any TIN boat ... but what do I know, I've only wired 20-30 boats ...

OK. That answers a question that I wasn't sure about. I think the common automotive practice of grounding to the chassis does not apply in the marine world. Something about electrolysis and galvanic action between electricity and water that corrodes things at a faster rate than normal.
Hence the ground bus with no electrical connection to the hull.

Thanks.....Roger

 

[David Atkins]

Most all boats utilize a grounding system, not sure how your system is set up with interconnecting grounds but they have to be tied back into the battery's negative side, see Basic Electrocity Bonding, Grounding, and Lightning Protection Systems on Boats
There are four separate ground systems: (i) DC ground, (ii) AC ground (neutral), (iii) AC grounding (or bond), and (iv) the boat's or RV's bonding system. The AC ground and grounding systems are "free floating," meaning that they do not ground on the vessel, but only to shore.

 

[DaleH]

This is what I use for the DC Ground in boats ...

Tips - Always put a SS internal-tooth lock washer on the post before adding any connector. I will also put another on top of the Engine ground.

Bonus - More elegant that a just a term block in the stern for grounds to white-all-around light, bilge pump or livewell pumps. But the cool part is, I can REMOVE either battery from the boat , with circuits running, and not sacrifice my ground. The grounds at this 'common post' stay intact, in place and integral.

 

[InSaneFisherMan]

Off topic but, there is a difference between earth ground, chassis ground, and common ground. The schematic symbols are different for each and for some reason the earth ground symbol seems to be the standard.

From my experience, Small tins (outboard motors) are usually wired as a common ground (-) battery and not wired directly to the hull (chassis ground).

A small tin hull is normally only at earth ground potential when in the water. The (-) terminal of a starting battery will be at earth ground potential when the motor is in the water or through its mounting hardware from the hull.

 

[Tbmyer88]

SHES FIXED!
Replaced the burnt up rectifier, the bad fuse & holder. Now everything works perfect. Even with the gauges not wired. I have all the gauges after the tach removed and all is good.
Thanks again for everyone’s help!!
Now fishin time!