Yamaha 25 vs Tohatsu 25 vs Suzuki 25

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blackshear

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I'm considering purchasing a new 25 HP, tiller, long shaft. I currently have a 648 (1648) War Eagle that has an older (2002) Yamaha F25. I love the motor as far as performance goes but the weight is a real issue for me since if fish and hunt is shallow water lakes. The Suzuki overcomes the weight issue for me with power tilt and trim as does the Tohatsu. The Yamaha weight is really been reduced but I'm not sure if it is enough to be for manual tilt, which I have to do often on my lake. Really wish I could get the Yamaha with power trim. Any comments as to personal experience with any of these 3 motors would be appreciated.
 
I'm pretty sure the Yamaha F25 with a long shaft is available with power tilt / trim.

I have a 2017 F25SWHC (manual trim). The trim lever is the one thing I really
dislike, it's buried under the tiller mount & associated wiring. Other than that I
really like the motor.
 
kdgrills said:
I'm pretty sure the Yamaha F25 with a long shaft is available with power tilt / trim.

I have a 2017 F25SWHC (manual trim). The trim lever is the one thing I really
dislike, it's buried under the tiller mount & associated wiring. Other than that I
really like the motor.

To get a Yamaha tiller with tilt/trim you have to buy the remote model and then buy tiller handle and install kit. it gets too expensive going that route for me. How many tilt positions does yours have and how easy is it to lift once you get to the lever?
 
Oh, I see, yeah that would get expensive.
Don't remember how many positions off the top of my head.
I'll check tonight & take a couple pics as well.
 
i had the tohatsu.the tiller has the built in rpm adjuster.i loved that motor.it also came with the prop included.very smooth and the pt/t was also great.i had 3 dealers who serviced them in my area so it was a no brainer for me.it was also the only 25 hp short shaft that had power tilt/trim at the time.i upgraded from a yamaha 15.hated that motor with a passion.
 
kdgrills said:
Oh, I see, yeah that would get expensive.
Don't remember how many positions off the top of my head.
I'll check tonight & take a couple pics as well.

Pictures would be great! The Yamaha website doesn't show any details. I would like to see where the lever is located for tilt. Thanks
 
bcbouy said:
i had the tohatsu.the tiller has the built in rpm adjuster.i loved that motor.it also came with the prop included.very smooth and the pt/t was also great.i had 3 dealers who serviced them in my area so it was a no brainer for me.it was also the only 25 hp short shaft that had power tilt/trim at the time.i upgraded from a yamaha 15.hated that motor with a passion.

What kind of boat did you run the Tohatsu on and how fast would it run? Thanks
 
14.5' g3 guide v.if i remember correct it ran around 20 mph wot.keep in mind it was propped for slow trolling and had over 800 pounds of total weight.
 
blackshear said:
I'm considering purchasing a new 25 HP, tiller, long shaft. I currently have a 648 (1648) War Eagle that has an older (2002) Yamaha F25. I love the motor as far as performance goes but the weight is a real issue for me since if fish and hunt is shallow water lakes. The Suzuki overcomes the weight issue for me with power tilt and trim as does the Tohatsu. The Yamaha weight is really been reduced but I'm not sure if it is enough to be for manual tilt, which I have to do often on my lake. Really wish I could get the Yamaha with power trim. Any comments as to personal experience with any of these 3 motors would be appreciated.

The Tohatsu 25hp 15" does come with tilt and trim. Merc and Yamaha 15" do not.

I have a Tohatsu 20hp electric, tilt, tiller 15" and push 1000lb at 25mph 5700 factory 11.5 prop. You would probably get another 5-7 mph out of a 25 depending your hull and weight. Im sure they are all good choices, local service is another thing. Suzuki 25,30hp you can buy onlineoutboards.com.
Yamaha is probably the lightest of the three.
 
blackshear said:
Pictures would be great! The Yamaha website doesn't show any details. I would like to see where the lever is located for tilt. Thanks

Here ya go. The tilt lock lever is between & just above the clamps & carrying handle,
just about even with the top of my transom. I put a piece of red tape on
it to make it more visible. It's just big enough to grip with your thumb and finger,
not particularly difficult to move, just clumsy to get to. Look closely and you'll see
the steering friction adjustment lever just above it to the left.

There are four trim adjustment positions.
I'm not able, at the moment, to pull the boat out to verify the number of tilt positions.
I think 3 or 4, I'd swear that used to be on their website or in the manual, but I don't see it now.

Please forgive how fugly my transom is! I'll be redoing it this spring,
now that I'm happy with the motor height.

20190213_185032.jpg

20190213_185056.jpg

20190213_185126.jpg

20190213_185150.jpg
 
I had almost the same boat (mine's a 548 and not a 648), 25hp 4 stroke (2000 model), but short shaft. I had the same issue. Hard to tilt it. There's an easy way. Kick it into reverse while it's idling and you can tilt it a little easier. That's not always convenient, though.

I had a hair brained idea this past summer that if I could sell my '00 model for any appreciable amount of money, I'd put the money toward a new Yamaha 25. So I stuck it on CL for a high price and wouldn't ya know it, guy emails me about 10 minutes later and wants it for the asking price. I figured he was another blow-hard, but no, he actually showed up that evening from about 175 miles away and bought it on the spot. 'Course I sweetened it up a little by giving him some spare parts that I had amassed over the years doing dealer work. CDI, prop shaft, spare carburetor, and a spare prop. But the problem was, the dealer was out of new 25's and it was going to be a week or two before another came in. That was the longest 6 day wait I've ever had. I had to resort to putting the old 3 cylinder 25 back on the transom. It's fast but once you've had a 4 stroke, you feel weird going back to a 2 stroke. About as awkward as going from 2 stroke to 4 stroke.

Anyway, what I can tell you about the new Yamaha is that you'll go about 2 mph faster. It starts better. The throttle is MUCH more linear. The old 4 stroke motor, once you get to about 3/4 throttle, if you go from 3/4 to full, it doesn't really pick up much. With the EFI on the newer one, it is a lot more controllable. Full throttle is full throttle. 3/4 is 3/4. There is a difference between 3/4 and full; on my rig about 4 mph give or take. The first thing you'll notice is a little shake at idle. It is not bad but it is noticeable. I have about 10 hours on mine now and a lot of the shake has subsided; so keep that in mind. But really the BIGGEST difference is that tilting it is like tilting an old 2 stroke 25hp twin carb Yamaha. It's really that easy. Even for my old working man's back that hurts mostly all the time, I can tilt it up one handed. The tilt lock takes some getting used to, being that it's in the front of the motor instead of the side. And the starter button is kind of buried on the lower cowling too, not really buried but not quite as easy to get to as your older one. You get used to it quickly. Now the technical. Yamaha's EFI is super nice. The lower unit is mostly the same as the old 2 stroke twin carb, with minor differences in the shape of the exhaust, and a better paint process. The prop shaft is the same part number as your current 25 as well as the old 2 stroke. Water pump parts are the same as the old 2 stroke, but your current 4 stroke is different than the new 4 stroke water pump. The cowling lock is easier to use. The motor is considerably quieter under way as well in comparison to the older 4 stroke and a lot of that is due to the elimination of the counterweight "slug" in the older 4 strokes. The new 25hp "pee hole" doesn't pee quite as hard as the older ones which I find odd since Yamaha's known to have a pretty stout stream of pee water. But I've run about a dozen of them and they're all the same (brand new). Water pressure is normal, they just don't bypass as much water as the older motors did. Also, the entire motor's paint is a little nicer on the newer ones than the old ones were; more glossy. That may not matter to a duck hunter, though. Most of them will spray paint them camo the day they get 'em home.

How does it compare to the Tohatsu? It's (the yamaha) more refined. The Yamaha lower unit doesn't whine. It's silent. The engine is quieter under 1/2+ throttle than the Tohatsu. The idle quality is a little better on the Yamaha, though the Tohatsu runs slightly smoother (though not a lot). The yamaha is about 1 mph faster top speed too, with no appreciable out-of-the-hole performance difference.

Suzuki? I like the idle quality and that's it. It felt a little sluggish from holeshot, was about 2 mph slower top end, on the same hull, and it was right at 6100 RPM on the tiny tach. The shifter felt weird when shifting. I had a little trouble with it, but it could've been that I ain't used to it. I just wasn't happy with the suzuki 25....and I WANTED it, but glad I didn't buy one now.

I had some vids on my phone from this past summer's use of the new motor, I'll see if I can't put 'em on youtub.e.
 
Thanks kdgrills and turbotodd for your detailed responses, they are really a big help to me. I am getting close to making my decision on which motor to go with and right now I am leaning towards the Yamaha. I can buy a new Yamaha for $3400 out the door, a slightly used 2014 Mercury (Tohatsu) with power trim for $3100 or a new Suzuki for $4400 with power trim. Tough decision for sure.
 
That's a good price on the F25. I gave $3650 + tax, I'm in a Yamaha free zone.
If you go that route make sure you do it before their spring sales promo is over.
 
turbotodd said:
I had some vids on my phone from this past summer's use of the new motor, I'll see if I can't put 'em on youtub.e.

Not the OP, but if you find them please do post. I would love to see them.
 
Today I found a dealer that has a Suzuki 25 with manual start and trim assist for $3200 tax included. I am not too crazy about the manual start unless it is possible to add electric start later. I’m not sure what the differences are between the tilt assist and power tilt and trim. The dealer that priced me the Yamaha at $3400 does not have one in stock so I have to wait until he orders three or more before I can get one at that price. Does anybody know anything about the tilt assist on Suzuki and if you can easily add electric start later on?
 
Also, the newer tohatsu is about 25lb heavier than the Yamaha. And since Tohatsu builds Merc, I ASSume the Merc is the same.

The older Merc/Tohatsu was a heavy pig. I liked how smooth it was but that was all that impressed me about it. Slow, little noisy, didn't care for the tiller and shifter, the lower unit shifts into/out of gear a little clunky, etc.

We rented a rig on the river again last year which was powered by a Merc 25. It was one of the newer ones (Tohatsu). It was kinda slow honestly, or more specifically slower than I expected. It's a 3 cylinder engine and "should" have more torque, but I was really disappointed. It ran right against the limiter on the top end so I doubt it was underpropped. My biggest complaint aside from it not having electric start was the fact that the tiller was weird. I didn't really figure out why it felt odd but it did. On the tillers, you can get the standard tiller or the multi-function tiller. The MF tiller is nicer and a little longer but it costs a little more too. I haven't priced them either way, so you're on your own there. One I ran was the standard. While researching your Mercatsu, look at what the MF tiller weighs and how much it adds to the total weight. Also look at the total cost. If you are looking at PT&T, ask whether it is truly PT&T or just PT. I've had a 20hp tohatsu in the past and it was sold as PT&T although it wouldn't trim while under way. After making a call back to the dealer about it, I found out that it did not have trim, tilt only, which for the money spent, it wasn't worth it. Only slightly better than manual tilt and a few more lbs of weight on the transom.

As for manual start EFI, the downside is that you have to really pull the rope quickly in order for it to start. That merc we ran, if I didn't yank yard enough the first time, it would flood it and would take 2 or 3 more pulls to crank it up. With it being a 3 cylinder, the yanking wears on you quickly. Yamaha's a twin cylinder and starts a LOT easier, they incorporated a compression release which makes the pull effort about 1/2 of the mercury. But you still have to make sure to pull with some authority. GF sometimes fishes the back of the boat and one of the things I try to instill into her is that she needs to know how to run the boat just in case I'm overboard or whatever. Mine's got electric start (and backup recoil start), but I tried to teach her to run the rope starter. She just pulls it slowly and by doing that it won't start at first. It always fires on the second pull though. Every time, even on a slow pull of the rope. It's just a different "feel" than a carbureted motor.

PT&T on the yamaha? Probably available but you'll have to get a long shaft remote and add a tiller kit to it...which is going to be a little expensive. Honestly, the thing is so light weight that it isn't needed. It tilts just like a 2 stroke.
 
thedude said:
Can you post a model number?

The model number for the Suzuki is DF25A with manual start and tilt assist. The dealer said I can add electric start easily but I’m not so sure about that being easy. He also said that you tilt the motor to the desired position you like and you can run the motor WOT in that position. I thought tilt assist was just for shallow water drive or slow speeds only.
 
Thanks turbotodd for your response. I have ruled the mercury out and my choice is between Suzuki and Yamaha now. I am going to see how much it will cost to get power tilt and trim added to the remote model. I guess it will come with the shifter. Maybe I could sell the shifter and get some money back.
 
I would go electric start over tilt assist any day of the week (if money is a factor).
 

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