New 2017 25hp 4 stroke efi yamaha

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Update: Sold the old F25, new one is sitting at work in the crate, paperwork is almost all done...but we ran into a "snag"...can't complete the sale until next week when I get back in town. But I did speak with someone who knows a whole lot more than I do about these things and says I'll love it compared to my old one...30+ lbs lighter, EFI, backup recoil start (which my old one had too....he just didn't know it), etc. Said the pre-production motors were a little less refined than the actual production units are, which is good news-I hope.

I had YDIS hooked up to it earlier and did the PDI stuff. Pretty cool what you can do with the EFI as far as datalogging, etc.

The tap up/down trolling speed is super nice but I'm gonna miss having an idle screw on the carburetor. Just me being old-fashioned I reckon.
 
Ok I promised a thorough and factual review, and here it is.


I love this motor. What I have to compare to is (1) my 2000 model F25 that I just sold and (2) the old 3 cylinder 25 Yamaha that I've got out in the shed that is not broken in yet, the old F20 that I had briefly, a 2006 F15 that was a "flip" motor (buy/resell), and a pair of Tohatsu/Mercury 4 stroke 25hp motors that I've rented/run a few times at the river. The 3 cylinder 25hp Yamaha (98 model) that I have gets used seldom and honestly at some point it'll probably find a new owner (brother wants it).

First thing's first. It is actually possible to tilt it from inside the boat! Lightweight it is for sure. That part I absolutely LOVE. At least compared to my other two Yamaha's. It's still not PT&T though :( Upon the push of the button, the engine fires (purrs) to life, idles up immediately to about 1400 RPM then settles within seconds down to exactly 900 (within a few RPM of course). The trolling speed is adjustable via switch on the side of the tiller handle, which is easily accessible. It will troll DOWN to 750 RPM with 3 clicks of the down switch; and then 3 "clicks" up, it will troll up to 1050 RPM. I like that part but don't know how much I'll actually use it. With my prop and boat, I'm seeing 2.0 mph at 750, and 4.1 mph at 1050 just for reference-for those who may want to use it for trolling. The throttle grip is perfectly shaped, very comfortable and easy to use. The tiller handle is longer than the old Yamaha's were-which is nice, but the best part is that it's angled toward the starboard side (toward the operator) and it is just really natural. It's not a steep angle, but it doesn't stick straight out of the front of the motor like the old ones did, either. Shifter. Mind you, this thing has 0.5 hours on it so it's still new...it's a little notchy to shift forward-neutral-reverse but nothing I would complain about. Shifter is mounted up on the tiller handle about mid ways fore and aft, very easy to access it. Running. At low speeds it does shake more than my old F25 did. The old 3 cylinder 2 stroke is smoother, but again, it's basically a brand new motor that gets used about twice a year to keep everything lubricated. The Yamaha rep says the shake will subside with hours. I hope so. It's not severe but it's not silky smooth like the Merc/Tohatsu/Nissan 25's are (they are 3 cylinder engines). The shake goes away at about 1400-1500 RPM. Quiet. Man is it quiet-much less noise than my old 2000 F25 was, and I thought it was quiet. It had a very slight noise from the foot (gear noise)...this 2018, the foot is SILENT. Speaking of the foot, the prop shaft is identical to the old 2 stroke and 4 stroke 25's so your props (if you have one) will retrofit. I'll get to propping in a minute. The tilt lock-it's no longer on the starboard side like they were for many years, which wasn't a problem for me (I got used to it)-Yamaha moved it to the FRONT, down kinda low, and I wasn't sure how I'd like that...but it's real easy to get to, easy to use, real ergonomically shaped, everything about it is an improvement over the old style. And for the hunters, it's now out off the way so that brush can't get into it. I've had that happen a couple times with my 3 cylinder.

The EFI. It's SILKY smooth transitioning from idle to part throttle to full throttle, and I mean it's absolutely linear all the way through. Yamaha did an excellent job there for sure. Cold starting? Effortless. Hot start? Effortless. It doesn't sweat either one. The backup recoil starter does take more of a harder pull than my old F25 did, BUT that motor was carbureted with auto-choke, and I had it idling slightly rich for better starting in cool waters (which is where I fish a lot). It took maybe 7-10 lbs pull to get that one started, this one takes closer to 20 lbs, and you can't just easily pull it because the stator has to generate enough electricity to power the EFI system, so you have to pull with some authority. It is still not hard to pull though, and NOWHERE near the effort to start my dad's 9.9 Evinrude (1986) or my 25 3 cylinder Yamaha, which is about the same as the 9.9 is as far as pull starting effort.

Now everyone wants to know by now how fast it is. I tried the factory white 9 7/8" x 11 1/4" aluminum prop on my War Eagle 548 which is rated for 40hp. The hull is 348 lbs, motor's 133, battery's mounted in the back and it's 43 lbs, I'm 200, the trolling motor is about 30, my tackle box is at least 30 (probably 35-ish), 5 fishing rods, cooler, and 10 lbs anchor. So I'm guessing maybe 850 lbs total. That should be pretty close. I'm seeing 29.0 mph on decent water at 6000 RPM with the white prop that it comes with. "Decent" meaning about 4" chop with some wake from other boaters on the water. So out of curiousity I stuck my Turbo SS 10x11 on it, which is typically about 1.0-1.5 mph faster with the old motor, and sure enough, I'm on the fuel cut (rev limiter) at 30.1mph steady, 6190 showing on the tach. So I really need either some cupping put into the prop or step into a 12" and hope for the best. I think cupping will do it; and may be the best option based on the fact that I was running "light" today, usually the GF goes with me so that will bring the RPM down a couple hundred. But I was surprised to see the fuel cut at 6200. My old F25? It went into limit at about 100 RPM higher (right around 6300) which worked good with this prop. Acceleration...it does accelerate a little faster than my old F25 did, but it's splitting hairs here. Old one was idle to plane in 2.3 seconds, this one is 1.9 as best I can tell. I have the motor mounted 2 1/4" up over the transom but I think I can stand to go another 1/2" or so...but I'm out of clamping space (just clamped on for the time being). If the Garage was bigger, I'd put a mini-jacker or a CMC (panther?) PT&T on it and try that, but it won't fit in the garage with either one....as it is, I have about 3/4" inch to spare at the very most, so adding 5.5" of setback ain't gonna work. I've read where folks have claimed to have 2, 3, 4 guys and a thousand lbs of "stuff" in the boat and still run 35mph....ain't happening, unless you have a 10mph current at your stern with a 25mph tail wind on a fast hull like an Ambush, Havoc, Edge, etc.

One neat feature is that you can buy an adapter that plugs into the outboard's ECU, then you can download a free app for your smartphone and watch your ECU data on the fly in realtime...WIRELESSLY. Pretty neat feature but I haven't explored it yet. Also, I believe that the ECU can connect to a Lowrance unit somehow but I have also not explored that yet. I don't even have a unit in my boat; don't have a use for it honestly other than depth and maybe GPS. These new Yamaha's also have the option for an immobilizer (YCOP I think they call it). This is a wireless feature that enables one to "lock" the engine, thus it can't be started, sorta like a security feature. I don't know much about it, or how functional it'd be on a 25hp engine, but it's there for those who might need it.

All in all I love most things about it, but again it's still brand new, tight, and I'm gonna give it a few hours of use before I start complaining about the idle shake, which again isn't severe, but I don't like it. What an almost perfect end to a warm, humid productive day at work. I left work at 1730 and was in the water by 1930 hr, rode around getting used to the motor, adjusting the torque tab, adjusting the trim pin, and just boat riding at different speeds. I leisurely headed over to my favorite spot, which is a sunken treetop over about 30' of water about 3 miles from the ramp, dropped a jig over the side not expecting anything and pulled a few smaller crappies out, while watching the sun setting to the West, the sky turning orange, then red, and right about the time the red faded seen a pair of bald eagles fly directly overhead; one of them was a juvenile-the other adult. Great evening, wish I could've stayed and fished a while after dark but I have to be up bright & early tomorrow so I called it an evening.
 
Nice review , keep us updated with any future "discoveries".
I just can't kill my old 86, 30hp Mariner(Yamaha) but the noise gets to me sometimes.
I've looked at this outboard as a replacement, due to its weight and reliability but at only 432cc was thinking some reviews were exaggerated. My boats a 1652 with a small jet tunnel, going down 5hp might really kill the performance. , seeing it is rated 35hp tiller 60hp console.(I use a tiller)

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
I find the tilt lock, friction lever, & start button to be cumbersome.
They're all buried behind the tiller mount & associated rigging.

2017-11-13 05.47.44.jpg

turbotodd said:
One neat feature is that you can buy an adapter that plugs into the outboard's ECU,
then you can download a free app for your smartphone and watch your ECU data on the fly in realtime...WIRELESSLY.
Pretty neat feature but I haven't explored it yet.

Is this something new which is available to the end user? Last I looked YDIS was only available to dealers.
I have the Commandlink tach, so I currently have what I need while running.
At some point I'm sure YDIS would come in handy for troubleshooting though.
 
Thanks for the review! I have been interested in these motors since I heard that they were on the market.
Seems like a good little motor. I have the "new" Suzuki 25 and it's really nice, but I'm certainly wanting to see this motor in person.
The Zuke has plenty of low to midrange torque. I'm just wondering how this motor will compare being only 2 cylinders with less displacement.
 
I will have to check into the availability of the YDIS smart. It may very well be dealer only. Displacement seems to have been a common issue among others. Or should I say "common in conversation".

Remember...I had a 2000 model, which was around 500cc. This new one is about 70cc smaller. And it accelerates faster, smoother, and has more top end with the exact same RPM and foot ratio and wheel. Displacement alone, in my opinion, doesn't mean more power or more torque. The 2017+ intake manifold is tuned differently. And actually if you look at the pre-2008 motors, the intake manifold was a weird shape. It was also integral to the cylinder head similar to the old Ford straight sixes (144, 170, 200, 250 cu in). Then the air intake silencer...it had to make a complete 180° turn into the carburetor. You'd think that it cost some power....but I did also try an intake funnel off of a 250cc sport bike, attached directly to the carb, expecting 1 or 2 mph. Nope. Not even after jetting. That tells me that Yamaha did a decent job of tuning the carb to the engine in respect to camshaft timing, ignition timing, etc-none of which are adjustable of course. Cam timing is, but it's one tooth either way which is like 23.5° each tooth (I think...going off of memory)-which ain't gonna do much good. Then in '08 they changed the head where the intake was better tuned to the rest of the engine, they also put a better starter on it and a better CDI system, which added up to a little more low end torque and smoother running/starting...but it also gained some weight at the same time.

To get the same or more HP/torque out of a smaller displacement is a nice feat. Especially considering that the outboard also lost 60 lbs or so.
 
Weight is definitely a factor. For light boats like a drift boat, it is possible to make a case that an older 2 stroke model for half the money, and less weight should be preferable. But then you give up some fuel mileage. My Honda 8 is a 4 stroke but surprisingly loud and heavy at around 87 pounds.
 
turbotodd, any updates on the low speed vibrations? How many hours have you logged on it? I'm going to start selling off all of my motors in hopes to get a brand new 25hp by spring. Was leaning Tohatsu but the weight turns me off plus I like the variable troll setting of the Yamaha as I enjoy exploring new water and using my side scan imaging at slow speeds. The tiller vibration is something that I think would drive me crazy though.
 
Yeah I have almost 7 hours and close to a full 3 gal tank of fuel on it now. I'm about to wear it out.

Still shakes but either (1) I'm getting used to it or (2) it's not as bad as it was when new. I'll take a little shake LONG before I have to deal with not being able to tilt it, or having to put a 160+ lb motor on the transom again.

I did use the rope starter a couple times while out this past week too. Not too hard to start at all, but you have to yank and keep pulling. The reason for this is because the flywheel/stator have to generate enough voltage to fire the EFI system. On my old one, I used the camshaft from a manual start motor which has a little bit different compression release, and I'd just grab hold of the rope, give it a half-hearted pull and it was running. Didn't even have to turn around. But again that motor was well used, had over 200 hours on it (that I put on it...and I bought it used). This one will probably ease up as it breaks in.

I have noticed, though, that I've got some spray coming off of the sides of the foot. At about 25 mph and up, it sprays water about 45 degrees up and out from the lower unit area. Doesn't bother me but it's just something I noticed. I don't get wet, not the least bit and this past week I sorta wish I did get some spray on me...it was well over 100°F with a heat index of 128° by time I got back home. Thought about jumping in but climbing back into the boat isn't all that much fun plus I spied a cottonmouth hanging out & working on his tan in a partially submerged treetop, so I figured it'd be better to stay in the boat.

I sure do like this motor. Especially it being considerably quieter at full speed than my old one was. Probably half as noisy. The old motor wasn't loud compared to the 3 cylinder 2 stroke 25 I have but this one I have now is WAY quieter...the GF and I can hold a conversation over at it full tilt with me sitting next to the motor. We ain't talking at a low voice like we were sitting still, but we could raise our voices and hear each other just fine. That was impossible with the old one.

I will also have to play with props. I'm on the limiter at full speed even with the high heat we had the other day. Last time I was out, was the only one at the lake and the lake conditions were perfect to measure GPS top speed. Already knew it would run right at 29.9mph so I pulled the seats, trolling motor, tackle box, rods, anchor, anything that was weight but the paddle. On the limiter HARD at 30.0mph in just a few seconds, so it desperately needs a prop...at least a 12" pitch (11" currently). In time I'll test more. Just not in the budget right now.
 
Thanks! I really appreciate the update!

turbotodd said:
Yeah I have almost 7 hours and close to a full 3 gal tank of fuel on it now. I'm about to wear it out.

Still shakes but either (1) I'm getting used to it or (2) it's not as bad as it was when new. I'll take a little shake LONG before I have to deal with not being able to tilt it, or having to put a 160+ lb motor on the transom again.

I did use the rope starter a couple times while out this past week too. Not too hard to start at all, but you have to yank and keep pulling. The reason for this is because the flywheel/stator have to generate enough voltage to fire the EFI system. On my old one, I used the camshaft from a manual start motor which has a little bit different compression release, and I'd just grab hold of the rope, give it a half-hearted pull and it was running. Didn't even have to turn around. But again that motor was well used, had over 200 hours on it (that I put on it...and I bought it used). This one will probably ease up as it breaks in.

I have noticed, though, that I've got some spray coming off of the sides of the foot. At about 25 mph and up, it sprays water about 45 degrees up and out from the lower unit area. Doesn't bother me but it's just something I noticed. I don't get wet, not the least bit and this past week I sorta wish I did get some spray on me...it was well over 100°F with a heat index of 128° by time I got back home. Thought about jumping in but climbing back into the boat isn't all that much fun plus I spied a cottonmouth hanging out & working on his tan in a partially submerged treetop, so I figured it'd be better to stay in the boat.

I sure do like this motor. Especially it being considerably quieter at full speed than my old one was. Probably half as noisy. The old motor wasn't loud compared to the 3 cylinder 2 stroke 25 I have but this one I have now is WAY quieter...the GF and I can hold a conversation over at it full tilt with me sitting next to the motor. We ain't talking at a low voice like we were sitting still, but we could raise our voices and hear each other just fine. That was impossible with the old one.

I will also have to play with props. I'm on the limiter at full speed even with the high heat we had the other day. Last time I was out, was the only one at the lake and the lake conditions were perfect to measure GPS top speed. Already knew it would run right at 29.9mph so I pulled the seats, trolling motor, tackle box, rods, anchor, anything that was weight but the paddle. On the limiter HARD at 30.0mph in just a few seconds, so it desperately needs a prop...at least a 12" pitch (11" currently). In time I'll test more. Just not in the budget right now.
 
wmk0002 said:
turbotodd, any updates on the low speed vibrations? How many hours have you logged on it? I'm going to start selling off all of my motors in hopes to get a brand new 25hp by spring. Was leaning Tohatsu but the weight turns me off plus I like the variable troll setting of the Yamaha as I enjoy exploring new water and using my side scan imaging at slow speeds. The tiller vibration is something that I think would drive me crazy though.

Getting ready for next weekends trip (Webster lake, IN).
I took a few videos, idling in neutral, at various rpm.

The tiller handle vibrates a bit @ 1000 rpm, although
I don't find it objectionable in gear on the water.
It also seems much louder in the video than it actually is.

This is a 2017 F25SWHC, just over 14 hours on it.

800 rpm:
https://youtu.be/KF7Fc6Nd1Rw

1000 rpm:
https://youtu.be/mV8mFg0wAao

1200 rpm:
https://youtu.be/V53WBS4CdBk

1600 rpm:
https://youtu.be/dIEMCH97bIY
 
Exactly like mine. Most folks won't have any issue with it. I'm really picky. My friends all say borderline OCD.
 
What speeds are you seeing with the F25 amd two people in the 1648? I am torn between a Suzuki and Yamaha...I have the 1648MV NCS with a 15hp 2 stroke Merc that I want to up-size.
 

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