Western W-17 Rebuild advice needed and build thread

Bear0214 · Mar 26, 2024

What kind of power are you going to hang on her?

thill · Mar 26, 2024

Whidbeyboater said:
I cut all of the transom support structure out in order to get the old transom out. I will be making some new structure and having it welded up once I get the transom back in.

The inside surface of the transom has some pitting. Not too bad in my opinion. Looks like water got in around some of the fasteners and ate at the surface. No pitting around the perimeter and where it attaches to the hull so I am thinking it would be structurally sound. I am thinking about coating the entire inside surface of the transom G-Flex epoxy, then sand down flush to fill all of the pitting and corroded spots. Then paint before installing the transom back in. This should help keep any future corrosion to a minimum. Plus I plan to seal all of my through transom fasteners pretty well so I hopefully wont be trapping any water in there in the future.

I have been thinking a lot about the splash tray and looking at more pictures. I am planning on just installing my rear deck and use it as is for a little while and eventually build a splash well that side on top of my rear deck and extends up a bit higher than the transom to add a little extra protection against a wave from the rear. I was originally thinking I would have the bile area in the back completely open and accessible for the plug and bilge and inspection but my buddy talked some sense into me. He said most new boats have the plug installed from the outside and have minimal to no access to the bilge. So keeping my rear deck all one big sheet with a splash well on top and small access panel to inspect / maintain my bilge pump is probably the ideal set up and close to what you would find on a new aluminum boat.

Got a bunch or wire wheel clean up done this weekend along with riveting some more support structure in. Cut the top caps for the skinny side pieces out of 3/4 MDO. Finally got my 316 SS staples so I should be starting wrapping my floorboards in my flooring vinyl this week. The big milestone I am trying to hit is getting the rest of the riveting and fab work done (with exception of the transom work) and getting all on the painted surfaces sanded down and prepped for paint. Once I have all that down I can pull it out of the shop and give it one last pressure wash and scrub down before pulling in back into the shop and start with re-assembly. Foam, Floors, Transom, Console, Etc. Should start looking more like a finished boat. If all get well it should be ready to test in the water by early May. Not a lot to share with pictures. Will probably post up some progress pics later this week.

Sounds good.

If you coat the inside of the transom with G-Flex, I would not sand most of it off before putting on the transom. It will never be seen, so why not leave the protection on?

There are some interesting fold-down bench options. I don't have time right now to show examples, but I'm considering adding a rear deck to my center console, using the design from Sea Hunt, I believe.

In my 16 Sport that I pictured above, the deck is carpeted, so it's really comfortable to sit or lay on without adding any seats or sockets. Initially, I was going to do something there, but I'm glad I didn't.

What kind of flooring are you going to have over your decks? Paint, Carpet, Vinyl or SeaDeck?

Whidbeyboater · Mar 26, 2024

Bear0214 said:
What kind of power are you going to hang on her?

thill said:
Sounds good.

If you coat the inside of the transom with G-Flex, I would not sand most of it off before putting on the transom. It will never be seen, so why not leave the protection on?

There are some interesting fold-down bench options. I don't have time right now to show examples, but I'm considering adding a rear deck to my center console, using the design from Sea Hunt, I believe.

In my 16 Sport that I pictured above, the deck is carpeted, so it's really comfortable to sit or lay on without adding any seats or sockets. Initially, I was going to do something there, but I'm glad I didn't.

What kind of flooring are you going to have over your decks? Paint, Carpet, Vinyl or SeaDeck?

I have an early 80s pre VRO Johnson 60 that came with the boat. I plan on running that to start. Might stick with it if it runs well and proves to be reliable. Otherwise I will be looking for a good deal on a 50 - 60 hp 4 stroke.

I will be covering up the floor and decks with marine vinyl here is a link to what I have. https://www.marinevinylfabric.com/p...oring-flexa-collection?variant=32937588424788

Good point on sanding of the g-flex on the transom. Mostly thinking I will just hit it with some 180 grit to smooth down any high spots before I paint and install the transom board. But I will leave the majority on there. I really like working with the G-flex. Seems like a great product.

Ordering some aluminum sheet to finish out my under deck storage. I was originally planning on using more MDO but for a few bucks more I can get some aluminum sheet cut to size and rivet it in there and never have to worry about it getting wet. Plus it will save me a few pounds. Hope to have them installed by the end of the week.

Whidbeyboater · Apr 1, 2024

Not a ton of progress in the past week. I have my annual dirt bike 100 mile desert race this weekend so I have been working on the bikes and camper to get ready.

My aluminum is on back order. Hopefully will get the call today to go pick it up and I can finish out my storage compartments.

I cut out the long skinny 3/4" MDO ply that go along the side "Shelf" thing and have 2 coats of epoxy. Probably hit the edges one more time and call those good.

Got some more coats of epoxy on the transom. That thing is coated good. Going to hit the edges one more time before I install it but I am very confident the transom will outlast the boat.

Just need to do a bit more sanding then I can drag this thing out into the driveway and give it one last pressure wash before paint, foam, and re-assembly. From there things should speed up a bit.

Whidbeyboater · Apr 23, 2024

Finally got some time to make some more progress on this boat.

Got all my storage compartments and reinforcements built out and riveted together. Got the main floor and skinny side panels covered with my flooring materials and started working on the rear deck. Pulled the boat out and gave her one final cleaning and now she is ready for re-assembly.

Picked up a bunch of pink foam insulation board and am working on packing in as much flotation foam as I can fit. I hope to get foam installed, interior painted and floors installed by the end of the week.

Big remaining project is getting the transom re-installed and brackets welded up to support it. I will get to this eventually.

Anyone have any suggestions on foam placement? I have about 1,400 lbs of floatation foam. I think I can get most if not all installed. half of that will be in the floor, 1/4 in the bow and 1/4 in the stern. I would like to get more in the stern to help counter the weight of the outboard but I added some storage that is taking up some space that would otherwise be used for foam.

I figure being conservative my hull is ~350 lbs, interior panels ~250 lbs, Center console ~75 lbs, Engine ~225 lbs, kicker ~75 lbs, Fuel gear / other ~ 200 lbs = a total of 11175 lbs. I would guess maybe closer to 1000 but 11175 is a good conservative number. At 1175 lbs 1400 lbs of floatation should keep it floating. Anyone know how much floatation foam new boats have? Any ideas on the placement of foam? I have heard if the center of gravity is above your center of buoyancy you can become unstable and potentially flip the boat if it were to get filled with water. I am pretty limited on space above the floor. I think my only option would be to purposely remove foam from the floor to increase the height of the center of buoyancy but then I would have less total flotation foam. I am not sure how much of a concern it really is. I just want that piece of mind if I leave my boat in the water over night or I take a big wave its not going to end up on the bottom. Ideally it stays upright and I would be able to bilge it out.

Will post some pics shortly

Whidbeyboater · Apr 25, 2024

A few pics of foam install so far.

Started trying to cut the pieces perfectly to size. Ended up just cutting strips and packing what ever I can into the voids. I am okay with it not being perfect. I figure some air gaps will help with draining and allow it to dry out better and it will be easier to remove if I ever need to service or inspect under the floor.

I have heard some people say this foam board can squeak. Anyone have experience with that? I can’t imagine it making too much noise under the floor. I don’t really care if it makes noise while cruising around as the engine and wind will likely be louder. I just don’t want to hear squeaking and sounds while trolling with an electric motor or on anchor. I am not too worried about it but if someone had an issue I might consider adding some glue or something.

Also some pics of the console. Wasn’t planning on doing anything other than pressure washing. But now that the boat is coming together and will be pretty much all new looking I decided I need to get a fresh coat of paint on the console to match.

Ray Clark · Apr 26, 2024

If it was me, I wouldn't be too concerned about how "form fitting" that foam is. I would cut it into pieces and fill the voids as best I could. As long as the foam is contained and doesn't migrate over time, you'll be fine.

About the amount of flotation: I'd add enough foam to displace the max weight listed on the identiplate. You can go further if you want; no big deal as long as you're not sacrificing usable space for excess foam.

Whidbeyboater · Apr 26, 2024

Ray Clark said:
If it was me, I wouldn't be too concerned about how "form fitting" that foam is. I would cut it into pieces and fill the voids as best I could. As long as the foam is contained and doesn't migrate over time, you'll be fine.

About the amount of flotation: I'd add enough foam to displace the max weight listed on the identiplate. You can go further if you want; no big deal as long as you're not sacrificing usable space for excess foam.

The max weight on my Vin Plate is 1650 lbs but this doesn't take into consideration the weight of the hull. Just the motor, fuel, gear, and occupants right? I guess I didn't really consider the weight of the occupants. If the goal of the foam is to keep the boat floating and the occupants safe then I guess I need to be able to float it all....

I estimate I will be able to get about 1200 - 1,500 lbs of displacement in based on what I have done so far. This should be enough to keep the boat above water and have some reserve buoyancy for occupants. It will be significantly mare than I pulled out of this boat so at least its better than it was.

Whidbeyboater · Apr 26, 2024

Anyone have any opinions on seat placement?

I cut the rear hatch for my fuel storage without considering my seat placement. I want to be able to open my fuel compartment hatch without removing the rear seats just for convenience. With the current size of the hatch I would have to have my seats pretty far outboard to clear the hatch door.

I am thinking having my seats this far out will be okay when running with people in both seats but if there was just one or people are moving around in the boat it will be too out of balance.

I am considering getting a new piece of plywood and re-making the rear deck with a smaller hatch. There are a few other minor things I want to change with the rear deck anyway. I will be out $125.00 but it's worth it to me if the boat is more stable and comfortable.

I am thinking if I am able to keep the seats inboard enough to keep the weight on over the bottom of the boat where it if flatter, rather than closer to the side where it curves up it will be much more stable. Plus a little more comfortable having more room on all sides for the person sitting in the seat.

LDUBS · Apr 27, 2024

Whidbeyboater said:
The max weight on my Vin Plate is 1650 lbs but this doesn't take into consideration the weight of the hull. Just the motor, fuel, gear, and occupants right? I guess I didn't really consider the weight of the occupants. If the goal of the foam is to keep the boat floating and the occupants safe then I guess I need to be able to float it all....

I estimate I will be able to get about 1200 - 1,500 lbs of displacement in based on what I have done so far. This should be enough to keep the boat above water and have some reserve buoyancy for occupants. It will be significantly mare than I pulled out of this boat so at least its better than it was.

I could be all wet here (haha). It seems the small boat standard is to keep the boat level when it is completely swamped. I believe this doesn't mean the boat would remain above water. My understanding is it means instead of turning turtle, the boat stays level with the gunnels awash. The standard is based on safe gross weight (boat, motor, full tank, gear, occupants)

Whidbeyboater · Apr 27, 2024

LDUBS said:
I could be all wet here (haha). It seems the small boat standard is to keep the boat level when it is completely swamped. I believe this doesn't mean the boat would remain above water. My understanding is it means instead of turning turtle, the boat stays level with the gunnels awash. The standard is based on safe gross weight (boat, motor, full tank, gear, occupants)

I think it’s both. Needs to stay level and above water. Either way it’s an old boat I am not too concerned I figure I pack as much foam in as I can and pray I never have to test how well it floats. I will have a decent amount of foam up the sides of the hull which should keep it from going turtle on me.

Ray Clark · Apr 29, 2024

Yes, I think I'd account for the weight of the hull. My apologies for my confusing response. I'd plan for enough flotation to keep the boat (hull, motor, gear, persons) at least neutrally buoyant.

Also, remember that the amount of flotation needed to keep an item neutrally buoyant is less when it's partially or fully submerged. As an example, personal floatation devices do NOT provide flotation equal to the weight of the person wearing it; it's only a small fraction of the person's weight. It's just enough to provide floatation that will keep the wearer's head above water. For the PFD I wear, that's 35 pounds.

Fresh water weighs about 8.3 pounds per gallon; salt water about 8.5 pounds per gallon. One of those 2" thick 4X8 sheets of extruded foam displaces a volume of just under 40 gallons. That's "about" 330 pounds of fresh water displacement per sheet, minus the weight of the foam board (7 1/2 pounds, depending on brand), which leaves about 320 pounds of flotation per 4X8 sheet.

I think I'd try to get as much foam in enclosed areas below the water line as I could, taking into account the amount of below-deck volume that I want to preserve for storage, live wells, etc. If you can get that floatation up to the max weight of the boat, you'll be fine.

Anyway, that's probably more deep thinking than I ought to do at this time of day.

LDUBS · Apr 29, 2024

Ray Clark said:
Also, remember that the amount of flotation needed to keep an item neutrally buoyant is less when it's partially or fully submerged. As an example, personal floatation devices do NOT provide flotation equal to the weight of the person wearing it; it's only a small fraction of the person's weight. It's just enough to provide floatation that will keep the wearer's head above water. For the PFD I wear, that's 35 pounds.

Fresh water weighs about 8.3 pounds per gallon; salt water about 8.5 pounds per gallon. One of those 2" thick 4X8 sheets of extruded foam displaces a volume of just under 40 gallons. That's "about" 330 pounds of fresh water displacement per sheet, minus the weight of the foam board (7 1/2 pounds, depending on brand), which leaves about 320 pounds of flotation per 4X8 sheet.

Interesting. So a fully afloat 1,500# boat is already displacing 1,500 pounds or about 24 cubic feet of water. As the boat sinks, each cubic foot of additional volume is going to weigh less than an additional cubic foot of water. Hence, a lot less floatation is needed to keep the neutral buoyancy. I think.

thill · Apr 30, 2024

I like what I'm seeing!

Your idea of making a smaller hatch isn't bad. But you might want to use the boat for awhile before drilling and mounting the seats.

I planned to put seats in as you do, but I'm glad I waited. The back deck is the most comfortable spot on the boat, and passengers tend to use and spread out on it. Having that area open makes the boat feel bigger and adds useable space. I keep several throw cushions for long, bumpy rides, and they get used, especially on the Bay. I put some snaps on the cushion handles and down on the front side of the platform to secure the cushions to, and that works great! Then, they get put away when we get fishing.

When casting, the decks obviously get a lot of use. When trolling, the same. Guys can grab rods that go down on either side without having to climb around mounted seats. I later planned to put SwivlEze bases back there to give me seat options, but after using the boat for awhile, those seats will probably never get used. Glad I didn't drill!

Your project is looking great.

thill · Apr 30, 2024

If you have good foam on the sides, I think there is plenty. Better than the factory foam is a good thing.

thill · Apr 30, 2024

I have a 60 HP Johnson on mine, and it runs great.

Whidbeyboater · Apr 30, 2024

thill said:
I like what I'm seeing!

Your idea of making a smaller hatch isn't bad. But you might want to use the boat for awhile before drilling and mounting the seats.

I planned to put seats in as you do, but I'm glad I waited. The back deck is the most comfortable spot on the boat, and passengers tend to use and spread out on it. Having that area open makes the boat feel bigger and adds useable space. I keep several throw cushions for long, bumpy rides, and they get used, especially on the Bay. I put some snaps on the cushion handles and down on the front side of the platform to secure the cushions to, and that works great! Then, they get put away when we get fishing.

When casting, the decks obviously get a lot of use. When trolling, the same. Guys can grab rods that go down on either side without having to climb around mounted seats. I later planned to put SwivlEze bases back there to give me seat options, but after using the boat for awhile, those seats will probably never get used. Glad I didn't drill!

Your project is looking great.

I appreciate the advice. I am using the flush mount seat bases so I can remove the seats and have an open rear deck and configure the seat layout the way I want depending how I am using the boat. I think this will give me the best of both worlds. I want to get the seat bases in now because I am coating my decking with epoxy before wrapping and the less cuts and holes I do after epoxy and wrapping will help keep everything sealed up.

Whidbeyboater · Apr 30, 2024

I am a terrible painter. Just don’t have the patience. Luckily my wife can help in that department. Got all the exposed areas painted grey. The bow will have some exposed Aluminum. Looks great so far, needs a light sanding and one final coat.

Got my 12 gallon fuel tank. Fits perfectly. I wish I could have closer to 18 gallons capacity but 12 should be more than enough for 95% of what I plan on using this boat for. I can always haul a few jugs if I need.

I talked myself out of painting the center console and decided to get it powder coated white. I think the powder coat will hold up a lot better than paint and white will look really good with the grey paint and gray / green / white speckled flooring.

I’m out on a work trip for the next 2 weeks so not much progress will be made but it should start coming together quickly when I get home.

thill · May 1, 2024

Add an ounce of Acetone and a teaspoon of Japan Drier or any paint hardener to your pint cup of paint, and use a foam roller and very soft brushes to get in the corners. The paint will seem very watery, but will dry super-flat and pretty fast. NO SANDING NEEDED!

Because it dries so fast, you can roll one side of the boat, go around the back and by the time you get to the front, it will be ready for the next coat, or maybe just a short wait. I absolutely hate painting, but after learning this trick, it's almost fun! And the finish will be excellent- nice and glossy.

Western W-17 Rebuild advice needed and build thread

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