Jack plates and hydrofoils

[Carolina]

Not much useful advice here from what I've seen. What was the payload in your rig on this cast and blast trip (men+ gear)? When taking about props, the first two questions to ask are always:
1. What RPM were you running?
2. What is the RPM rating for your motor.

Your motor looks to be at about the correct height. You need to get a tiny tach and figure out what RPM you're running before changing anything. Try to simulate a typical load when you're testing this. You want your motor running at or about 200 rpm below your motor's rating. I'd bet you're running way below optimal RPMs right now. Then you can make a prop decision. Yes, a 4 blade will get you out of the hole, but you need to be worried about pitch. Generally, for every inch of pitch you go up or down, you will see a 200 RPM change. Make a good guess what pitch you need then try out a prop. It helps to have friends who have props you can try, but there's a few companies that will let you try out props for 40 bucks or so each if you return them undamaged.

Having said that, I'm willing to bet you just had way too much payload on this trip. Get the boat set up for your typical load, not the once a year cast and blast.

 

[huntinfool]

I have a tach. At what speed are you asking about RPM. While I was trying to get up on plane? Barely 1000.
When I'm running wide open, the RPM's are close to 5500. As for what the motors RPM are rated at...I don't know.
Payload on my boat is 7 people or 940lbs.
1500lbs people motor and gear.
That said we had three hunters, 200lbs each. 3 shotguns, few boxes of shells, and some decoys. Maybe another 200lbs.
Don't think I'm too overloaded.
I've got a 98 force 90hp. I've asked the local prop repair place and they say I've got the right prop on it, but who really knows. I do seem to have a bit more throttle that I can give the motor and it does not increase the speed any. So maybe I do need a different pitch prop.

 

[huntinfool]

Looking online I see a range of 4500-5500 rpm's wot

 

[spcamno]

I used to have one of those Force outboard on a boat that I had.

I have always found the boat struggle to get on plane as well and did later found out that Force rated their horsepower from the flywheel not from the prop shaft so the hp they claim is kind of misleading.

Also, Force were bought out later by Mercury and they later discontinued the entire Force line due to it will cost them a tremendous amount of money to make those gas sucking Force EPA compliance.

All the above were told by the marine mechanic where I service my boat however I did added a hydrofoil (I think is Stingray brand) and it did help holeshot quite a bit and its more significant when I'm by myself (can't ask the passengers to move to the bow to help the boat plane) lol.

Have you ever thought about adding floatation pods?

I am thinking since you run shallows a lot and adding beavertail pods might not be a bad idea since those Force 90 is big and heavy.

 

[huntinfool]

I used to have one of those Force outboard on a boat that I had.

I have always found the boat struggle to get on plane as well and did later found out that Force rated their horsepower from the flywheel not from the prop shaft so the hp they claim is kind of misleading.

Also, Force were bought out later by Mercury and they later discontinued the entire Force line due to it will cost them a tremendous amount of money to make those gas sucking Force EPA compliance.

All the above were told by the marine mechanic where I service my boat however I did added a hydrofoil (I think is Stingray brand) and it did help holeshot quite a bit and its more significant when I'm by myself (can't ask the passengers to move to the bow to help the boat plane) lol.

Have you ever thought about adding floatation pods?

I am thinking since you run shallows a lot and adding beavertail pods might not be a bad idea since those Force 90 is big and heavy.

I already have float pods on the rear.

I can't say my motor is a gas guzzler. I ran WOT with 3 guys and a lot of gear for almost 20 miles all day and almost used 1/2 a tank. ( I believe mine is 26 gal.)
That's about 1.5 mpg. I'm a little over 200, and so was one of the other guys. But the last guy might be closer to 300. I'm going to change out my prop, for a stainless one, and I think I have a jack plate located....but trying to get the deal sealed is another story.

 

[huntinfool]

 

[spcamno]

I used to have one of those Force outboard on a boat that I had.

I have always found the boat struggle to get on plane as well and did later found out that Force rated their horsepower from the flywheel not from the prop shaft so the hp they claim is kind of misleading.

Also, Force were bought out later by Mercury and they later discontinued the entire Force line due to it will cost them a tremendous amount of money to make those gas sucking Force EPA compliance.

All the above were told by the marine mechanic where I service my boat however I did added a hydrofoil (I think is Stingray brand) and it did help holeshot quite a bit and its more significant when I'm by myself (can't ask the passengers to move to the bow to help the boat plane) lol.

Have you ever thought about adding floatation pods?

I am thinking since you run shallows a lot and adding beavertail pods might not be a bad idea since those Force 90 is big and heavy.

I already have float pods on the rear.

I can't say my motor is a gas guzzler. I ran WOT with 3 guys and a lot of gear for almost 20 miles all day and almost used 1/2 a tank. ( I believe mine is 26 gal.)
That's about 1.5 mpg. I'm a little over 200, and so was one of the other guys. But the last guy might be closer to 300. I'm going to change out my prop, for a stainless one, and I think I have a jack plate located....but trying to get the deal sealed is another story.

Sorry I missed the pic with the pods.

I know jackplate will help on top end but not sure the effect on holeshot if you elevated the motor because a buddy has a Ranger Reata (fish and ski) with a hydraulic jackplate he found holeshot is better when he lower the jackplate with the trim in and once its on plane he elevated the motor and trim up for optimal speed (of course monitoring the water pressure).

 

[huntinfool]

Yep. My thoughts are I raise the motor up so the skeg isn't hitting. Then start moving to boat. All the while increasing power, it should eventually gain enough speed to plane. At least it does it now. Motor down or somewhat up. So I can't seeing it not work. It's worked in all the other boats on this hunt to some degree.

 

[PsychoXP18CC]

Holler at Steve's Custom Props up at Lake Fork. Steve is a prop and motor setup guru, and will have some ideas for you to get the most out of your setup. My 1860 Xpress will be going to him in a month or so for a jackplate and 4 blade prop. Not necessarily for shallow water take-off, mine's not a tunnel hull either, but for all around improvements in handling, draft, and lift. I'm not expecting miracles, but like yours, my boat is going to be mine for a long time and I just want everything done to make it as right as it can be.

I have fished with guides that use the turning method on take-off. These were specially designed fiberglass flats hulls with huge tunnels and large outboards, boats that would run in inches of water. They would would take off in a fairly sharp turn and straighten the boat out to hop it up on top of the water. I've never asked them how much it actually helped, but I've been with more than one guide who does this.

 

[evidrine]

I was unsatisfied with how quickly I was able to get on plane with my boat. (Bass tracker pro16 with a mercury. 40) I ended up trying one of those stingrays fins that don't require you to drill holes to mount it. It basically slips on with a set of set screws to hold it in place. It was the cheapest route to try first , something like $40. Ended up significantly improving how quickly I was able to plane out. The handling in turns was improved also. The only drawback is that I did lose a little top end with it on. I also find that I have to keep the motor trimmed all the way down with the fin on or it will start to raise my bow and causes the boat to hop a little. I'm not sure if this is normal. It did what I wanted it to do though.

 

[huntinfool]

So I got a pic of my motor while on plane. I think I need to come up a hole.

 

[Siguz]

I agree. Looks like it need to go up.

 

[huntinfool]

So I raised it up a hole. I didn't notice a difference, but it was real windy and we were fighting a good chop.
My question is, when I'm looking at the plate, should I just be on plane or wide open?
With it up a hole, on plane, the plate is almost out. The back edge is, but not the front. I probably had the trim set with the nose up die to the chop.
So do I need to go up another hole?
I didn't get a pic, because my wife was driving, and she's not real familiar with driving a boat. So I just got a quick glance.
I'm not going to change anything until I get to run it again.

 

[Skiffing]

WOT. That way you'll know if it ventilates and you're too high.

On mine the difference was less than an inch.

 

[Siguz]

https://www.veradoclub.com/index.php?topic=137.0

In not sure where I found this link but it gives a great over view of desired motor height/positioning.

 

[huntinfool]

Well I'll have to try it again on a not so windy day....maybe tomorrow.

 

[Bowhunter1661]

I gained 3 mph on my 14' tin with 25 hp Johnson. Went from 28 to 31 MPH wot. I built a jack plate though.

 

[huntinfool]

I don't think mine sits out of the water that much. Hopefully I'll get a chance to check it soon.

 

[Skiffing]

From my understanding the cav plate exposure is a guide. Each engine manufacturer is different as is each hull / as is each specific boat loading - so you've got a lot of potentials..........

So there's no "rule" just a "rule of thumb" and then adjustment to find the best engine height for your situation. On our smaller boats it is certainly more trial and error - because the weight distribution has a more critical effect than on a 10,000 pound 25 foot twin setup.

Some boat / engine combinations run best when the cav plate is like Bowhunter's boat - which looks "picture" perfect. Some run best when submerged a bit in foam - like the Verado videos. Mine runs best when pulled up over an inch. That's where I get top RPM @ WOT, no change in cooling water intake and no ventilation on turns or any chop I CAN run @ WOT.

With the 13 X 14p prop my boat has the "best" cruise speed of 24 - 25 mph ~ 4800 rpm - conditions allowing. WOT is 5400 rpm @ 29 mph. Engine redline is 6000 RPM.

So..... I'm a little out of spec which tells me I'm over-propped - but not by much - and I there is no indication the engine is lugging.

Hope this helps

And, BTW - how to you like the Elite 5 HDI?

 

[Bowhunter1661]

I unfortunately didn't have the privilege of just raising my motor up via the bolt holes. I only have clamps with two bolts on bottom. Therefore I was kind of forced to built my JP. You on the other hand can just unbolt and raise. If it were my boat I would go another hole or even two on your setup. The pic is a little poor but it does appear to be low still.