Tool Type Questions

[Y_J]

Had this posted in my mod thread two or three days ago and figuring no one saw it there so I'll post it here in hopes of better luck.

Got a couple of tool type questions for ya'll. I'm getting ready to purchase an Angle Grinder and a Riveter. Based on your experience for working on these tin boats, what size do ya'll recommend to double duty as a grinder and polisher? I looked at some at Harbor Freight today and I'm not to thrilled with what I saw. All they had as far as any power tools goes were of "Chicago Electric" brand and I've never even heard of that brand name. But they did have sizes from 4" up to about 8".

Question 2: I wanted to get a Riveter but not to sure about just what to get. I've never used one before so that is new territory to me. Do the hand riveters work ok or should I be looking for a powered model? I'll need to go thru at least 1/2" of wood (and washer), the transom aluminum, and 1/8" diamond plate aluminum. Should I put the diamond plate outside the transom and wood inside? or visa versa? And what type of rivets should I be using?

Looking for your experience here and any ideas you might have. Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

 

[Bugpac]

Id bolt the transom. Rivets are good for decking, aluminum framing etc. You cant beat a air rivet gun. You cant beat the heavy duty rivets either...

 

[bobberboy]

I'm not sure you're going to be able to use a grinder as a polisher and vice versa. Angle grinders operate at speed in the neighborhood of 12,000 RPM while a polisher operates at around 3,000 RPM. I don't think a variable speed tool, no matter how good will give you constant speeds within their operating range. It is my understanding that the lower speeds for polishers are necessary to keep waxes and other compounds from becoming over-heated and turning into goo or worse.

Others may have different opinions but my experience with cheap tools has been that from day one they never work well but they work just good enough that replacing them seems like an extravagance. When I was in my late teens and early 20's and trying to put together a collection of power tools I couldn't afford high-end tools and bought entry level. In almost every case the tools worked poorly but kept working good enough that I could never justify replacing them. Poor bearings are one hallmark of cheap tools that lead to over-heating and a lot of noise. Components are often badly made or made of cheap materials.

Well made tools will last you a lifetime. Quality tools are made to withstand heavy daily use and even at that would have be replaced periodically because things just wear out. Those same tools in a home shop will last forever because they aren't subjected to the kind of abuse they'd get on a job site or any other commercial use. And let's not forget the old saying because you really do get what you pay for.

I personally would rather buy a good used tool than a cheap new one. In anticipation of my recent retirement I spent about three years scouring Craig's List and eBay for good used tools and equipped my future shop almost completely that way. Stationary tools as well as hand tools can be found that have been hardly used and at half the price of new. Just like exercise equipment there are lots of good used tools for sale by people who were "gonna" use them. Also when buying I really read the reviews available on many seller's web sites. Take advantage of others experience and mistakes.

Sorry for the lecture. I used crappy tools for half my life because I couldn't see the long view at the start and I ended up buying everything twice. A final word about the grinder from Wikipedia:

Safety
Through a sound pressure level and vibrations study conducted by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, grinders under an unloaded condition ranged from 91 to 103 dBA.[2] In addition, angle grinders produce sparks when cutting ferrous metals. They also produce shards cutting other materials. The blades themselves may also break. This is a great hazard to the face and eyes especially, as well as other parts of the body, and as such, a full face shield must be worn and other protective clothing. Angle Grinders should never be used without their guard or handle attached; they are there as a necessary precaution for safety. All work should be securely clamped or held firmly in a vice.

Good luck.

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

Grinders are grinders and polishers are polishers.
I have a 4.5" Dewalt grinder. I am planning on getting a HF Chicago electric 4.5 grinder to do one dusty dirty job. I don't want to destroy my Dewalt grinder.

 

[Y_J]

Bugpac » June 30th, 2014, 2:10 am[/url]"]Id bolt the transom. Rivets are good for decking, aluminum framing etc. You cant beat a air rivet gun. You cant beat the heavy duty rivets either...

Bolting? Hmmm, Hadn't thought of that one but does kind of make sense, since part will be wood and the other two parts aluminum. I was thinking of the wood on the outside of the transom and adding some diamond plate aluminum on the inside of the transom. Thinking that the combination would make the over all transom very sturdy.
I have a Fastenal just down the road from where I live so I'll drop in there and see just what they have in the way of air rivet guns.
Thanks so much for your help and input. I really appreciate it. SS bolts and washers it's going to be.
One more ??? if you don't mind. Should I also glue the wood on? I'm thinking to eliminate and air pockets between the wood and aluminum. I know the one that I took off was not glued. It just had 3 small screws from the inside into the wood. If I should glue it what type of gluse should be used?
Thanks again..

 

[Bugpac]

Id buy the harbor freighr rivet gun myself. I have one and it works great. Its like 40 bux. I dont think I would glue it to the boat.

 

[Y_J]

bobberboy » June 30th, 2014, 7:17 am[/url]"]I'm not sure you're going to be able to use a grinder as a polisher and vice versa. Angle grinders operate at speed in the neighborhood of 12,000 RPM while a polisher operates at around 3,000 RPM. I don't think a variable speed tool, no matter how good will give you constant speeds within their operating range. It is my understanding that the lower speeds for polishers are necessary to keep waxes and other compounds from becoming over-heated and turning into goo or worse.

The way you've explained it about the speeds, got me convinced. I need two different tools. So that's what it will be. It never occurred to me that the two different operations required different speeds. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Others may have different opinions but my experience with cheap tools has been that from day one they never work well but they work just good enough that replacing them seems like an extravagance.

This is why I was leery about the Chicago Electric tools at HB. I'd never even heard of that brand before.

Well made tools will last you a lifetime. Quality tools are made to withstand heavy daily use and even at that would have be replaced periodically because things just wear out. Those same tools in a home shop will last forever because they aren't subjected to the kind of abuse they'd get on a job site or any other commercial use. And let's not forget the old saying because you really do get what you pay for.

True, so true.. Major brand names it's going to stay. Started looking in Home Depot the past few days as well as there online store just so I could read the reviews. That seems to have become a habit of mine the past couple of years.

Thank you so much for all your great help and input.. I really do appreciate it a lot..

 

[Y_J]

lckstckn2smknbrls » June 30th, 2014, 9:31 am[/url]"]Grinders are grinders and polishers are polishers.
I have a 4.5" Dewalt grinder. I am planning on getting a HF Chicago electric 4.5 grinder to do one dusty dirty job. I don't want to destroy my Dewalt grinder.

Got ya.. Dewalt is one of the brands I was looking at, as well as Makita. So a 4.5" or 5" should be just fine for taking all the paint off of my boat? I want to take it all down to bare aluminum. Then primer and repaint both the inside and outside.

Right on. On ward and up ward. Thanks guys one and all for you help.
This is all new territory for me so trying to keep my head clear on what and how.

 

[bulrid8]

Actually it is hit or miss. I have one HF grinder that has outlasted two Dewalts and a Milwaukee. I have abused the hell out of it and it keeps going. I have had others that died after a few months.

For $15 I would take the gamble on one, for what you need.

 

[bobberboy]

bulrid8 » Today, 02:27[/url]"]Actually it is hit or miss. I have one HF grinder that has outlasted two Dewalts and a Milwaukee. I have abused the hell out of it and it keeps going. I have had others that died after a few months.

For $15 I would take the gamble on one, for what you need.

This happens sometimes and makes tool choice frustrating. That's why I read the customer reviews. If I got lucky once, good for me. Reading the reviews increases your chances of getting lucky. I looked at an off brand knock-off of a close quarters drill for around $50 to avoid paying 3x as much on the Milwaukee it was based on. In the reviews I learned the off brand had some kind of composite gears and they didn't last. I bought a used, almost new Milwaukee for $60 + shipping. I need to rent/buy a rivet gun to get my transom replaced. I just read above that Bugpac bought a Harbor Freight one for $40 and it works well. I was looking at finding a rental or buying one for 3-4x the Harbor Freight one. Who knew?

 

[BigTerp]

I'm assumming your looking for a rivet tool for solid rivets? If so, this is what I went with and have no complaints. I used it to set several dozen solid rivets without issue. You just need to find the apropriate size/style of rivet tool, as this air hammer only comes with chisels.

https://www.harborfreight.com/medium-barrel-air-hammer-with-chisel-69866.html

I also used a Harbor Freight grinder to cut EVERY piece of aluminum on my boat. And it was used a LOT. I used it to cut out my floor, bow deck, bow deck frame, center bench removal, rear bench hatch, all of my aluminun angle cuts, etc. It was a work horse for sure!! Mine is an older model, but is similar to this one.

https://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-4-1-2-half-inch-angle-grinder-91223.html

 

[lovedr79]

i had a knock off grinder that lasted for years, but i had one that lasted a week. I went with the dewalt grinder, no problems for 5 years now. I do have a chicago electric miter saw, i purchased it just to build my garage. i thought it would only last as long as it took to build my shop. 9 years later i still use it regularly. i have never tried a powered riverter. i have several hand riveters that work well.

 

[Snowshoe]

Random orbital polisher is the only way to polish wax. DeWalt makes a good one.

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

They say to use a Stainless Steel wire wheel to remove paint from an aluminum boat. Harbor Freight sells them.

 

[Stumpalump]

You want a 4 1/2 inch grinder. It's the single most used tool in my shop. It's also one of the more dangerous tools and I'd suggest gloves every time you use it till you get used to its nasty habits. The time I bought I decided that since it was such an important tool I was not going to set a budget. Instead I put each one at the home centers in my hands for control and how it felt in one hand. The makita had a slightly more ergonomic angle that fit my hands the best. Try to avoid the ones with a deadman switch that you must hold constantly if you can. It makes it too hard to get into spots and hold that switch at the same time.

 

[BigTerp]

Stumpalump » 3 minutes ago[/url]"] Try to avoid the ones with a deadman switch that you must hold constantly if you can. It makes it too hard to get into spots and hold that switch at the same time.

This is a great piece of advice. If your doing any lengthy cuts with your grinder a constant switch will also come in handy.

 

[Y_J]

Ok guys. after reading over everyones comments a couple of times I went back to the HF site and read thru the reviews and most of them were all 5s. So I guess I need to track me down one of them discount coupons and take a walk on the wild side For what I've been reading, you really can't beat it for the $$$
Thanks again everyone. I really appreciate all the input, suggestions, and ideas..

 

[Shoedawg]

If you are getting a pneumatic rivet tool (air tool) make sure your air compressor can support the required CFM (cubic foot per minute) that the tool uses. For example a brad nailer may require only 0.3 CFM compared to a framer nailer that may require 2.2 CFM. I have a HF rivet tool that uses about 4.5 CFM.

You should be able to find the air compressors capable CFM located somewhere on itself or contact the manufacture.

 

[Ranchero50]

I think a large part of the issues are use and duty. Any tool that gets hot will wear and fail faster than it should. I've never had any luck with anything HF makes that had a power cord. However I do have a HF heat gun and it works well

I have two Hitachi grinders and they have held up well.

 

[Bugpac]

The cfm really is intended for continuous duty. If your popping a few rivets here and there you will be fine with anything just about.