Foam...water-logged foam...and no foam...Let's talk

[Jdholmes]

And yet is still inappropriate. Just because someone holds different opinions then you does not make them foolish, idiotic, moronic or any other insult you may wish to throw out there.

 

[PSG-1]

Can't speak for everyone else, but this here doofus (myself) was at least smart enough to compensate for the removal of foam by having 4 bilge pumps! :mrgreen:

 

[dyeguy1212]

And yet is still inappropriate. Just because someone holds different opinions then you does not make them foolish, idiotic, moronic or any other insult you may wish to throw out there.

That's arguable. When I jump in trying to save some fool/idiot/moron from drowning because he thought the life jacket buried in a compartment, or a 12 volt bilge pump was going to save his rear end when a ski boat throws a 2 footer over the side of his boat, I'm gonna call him every name in the book.

All because he didn't think foam was important. "That'll never happen to me" is a FOOLISH mentality.


I fail to see why being outwardly careless shouldn't be viewed as foolish. Just because you don't find foam important, or think a fire extinguisher isn't necessary, doesn't mean the rest of us can't voice our opinion.


And for the record, using the adjective "foolish" is not the same as calling someone a fool. Let's avoid needlessly turning things into personal attacks.

 

[Jdholmes]

And this is the point where this kind of thread always goes to crap.

1. I never said foam wasn't appropriate.

2. I never said a fire extinguisher wasn't necessary. Read my posts more thoroughly next time you try to troll.

Regardless of if you think that everyone on here that does not have foam in their boat is a fool, it does not give you right to express that to everyone...keep it to yourself.

From my outlook most of the folks who have chosen not to use foam have done so taking a calculated risk. They have weighed the possibilities of them needing it, their location etc. taken into account and have made the determination that it is not something that they are willing or interested at that particular time investing in.

It is your right to think that foolish...but keep it to yourself. You are welcome to voice your opinion...that does not require an insulting approach,

 

[dyeguy1212]

And this is the point where this kind of thread always goes to crap.

1. I never said foam wasn't appropriate.

2. I never said a fire extinguisher wasn't necessary. Read my posts more thoroughly next time you try to troll.

Regardless of if you think that everyone on here that does not have foam in their boat is a fool, it does not give you right to express that to everyone...keep it to yourself.

From my outlook most of the folks who have chosen not to use foam have done so taking a calculated risk. They have weighed the possibilities of them needing it, their location etc. taken into account and have made the determination that it is not something that they are willing or interested at that particular time investing in.

It is your right to think that foolish...but keep it to yourself. You are welcome to voice your opinion...that does not require an insulting approach,

No one said that you thought foam wasn't important. Again, don't take everything as a personal attack. THAT'S when threads go to crap. It's just discussion, not every post is a rebuttal.

 

[jigngrub]

Calling people fools isn't nice.

I didn't necessarily call anyone a fool, a person can act foolishly and do foolish things without being a complete fool.

... but I don't think I'd give someone that removes their floatation foam and doesn't replace it that much credit.

I'm sure that people that remove their foam and don't replace it are unknowing (ignorant) of the facts of what it does, how important it is, and what can cause problems with it.

... and before you go whining about the word ignorant, here is the definition:

ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/
Adjective:
1.Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2.Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy".

I used the word in the context of definition #2.

 

[Jdholmes]

.

 

[MrSimon]

I kind of started skimming a bit, but still got a kick out of this thread.

I'm pretty much in the camp of "I wouldn't remove good foam, but I don't use it when I modify boats". I also tend to believe its usefulness is overstated.

So that kind of puts me in the minority of folks on here ..... and makes me the "target" of certain comments.

It don't bother me one bit!! This is one of the nicest and friendliest internet forums I've ever participated in. The guys on here are down right good people. So, if some folks think my not using foam is foolish, I'm fine with that. I'm a big boy, I can take it. I don't get bent out of shape when someone thinks differently than me.

So in short .... please people stop complaining and trying to point out where other people were insensitive, wrong, whatever .... just let it go.

 

[JamesM56alum]

Jesus guy's who cares lol it's not like any one on here is going to be any where near some one sinking at any point and 90% of the time with or with out foam you're never far enough away from shore that your bulge pump not handle the problem.

To foam or not to foam that is the question, my answer is WHO CARE'S do what you want, and mind your own business if it's not your own boat!

 

[PSG-1]

Jesus guy's who cares lol it's not like any one on here is going to be any where near some one sinking at any point and 90% of the time with or with out foam you're never far enough away from shore that your bulge pump not handle the problem.

To foam or not to foam that is the question, my answer is WHO CARE'S do what you want, and mind your own business if it's not your own boat!

I've been swamped by a para-sailing boat, operated by a common boater with no common courtesy. It put so much water in my boat, it flooded the engine compartment, and destroyed my engine. I wasn't close to sinking, and foam wouldn't have helped in this particular case. A baseball bat to the SOB's kneecaps might have helped, but then again, I would have gone to jail for handling it in that manner. I took it to court, but of course, with no witnesses on my boat, and the defendant having his first mate lie for him, he got away with it, free to do it again, as this is not the first time this 'paper captain' has swamped somebody. Hopefully, the next time it happens, it will involve a family member of one of the members of the jury that let him walk free, that would be fitting karma.

With all that said, I DO understand the importance of foam. I'd like to have more foam in my boat, but again, with the modifications I have, there's just no room for it.

 

[dyeguy1212]

Jesus guy's who cares lol it's not like any one on here is going to be any where near some one sinking at any point and 90% of the time with or with out foam you're never far enough away from shore that your bulge pump not handle the problem.

To foam or not to foam that is the question, my answer is WHO CARE'S do what you want, and mind your own business if it's not your own boat!

I've been swamped by a para-sailing boat, operated by a common boater with no common courtesy. It put so much water in my boat, it flooded the engine compartment, and destroyed my engine. I wasn't close to sinking, and foam wouldn't have helped in this particular case. A baseball bat to the SOB's kneecaps might have helped, but then again, I would have gone to jail for handling it in that manner. I took it to court, but of course, with no witnesses on my boat, and the defendant having his first mate lie for him, he got away with it, free to do it again, as this is not the first time this 'paper captain' has swamped somebody. Hopefully, the next time it happens, it will involve a family member of one of the members of the jury that let him walk free, that would be fitting karma.

With all that said, I DO understand the importance of foam. I'd like to have more foam in my boat, but again, with the modifications I have, there's just no room for it.

My point exactly. I've been close to getting swamped in a pretty big 17 foot boat on a small inland lake, so I find it hard to justify not to take every precaution in a little 14 foot jon boat, which is what gets modded majority of the time. Especially when it's powered by a trolling motor, which will take it's sweet time getting your boat into the right position to take on a rouge wave.

 

[Mojo^]

I suppose it's a matter of perception and application. Personally, I don't fish on big water and if I did it wouldn't be in a Jon. There are few places where I fish that allows anything over a 25 hp. or has speed restrictions (idle only) or that I couldn't walk out of if the boat were to suddenly break open and immediately sink to the bottom so when I refurbished mine last year I opted not to replace any of the foam. It's not stupid or moronic or anything else other than just not needed for how I use my boat. Besides, I spent most of last Summer cleaning-up corrosion from underneath water logged foam (brackish water) that I pulled out when I refurbished the boat and I wasn't eager to go back down that road again.

Last year I saw an ad where a guy was giving away his Jon. All you had to do was come and get it. The problem was that it was sitting on the bottom of a lake still tied to his dock. A downpour from a thunderstorm one night filled the boat while he slept and it sank to the bottom. Living in Middle Georgia, this is more of a probability and concern for me that getting swamped by another boat or jet ski or something similar. At the first sign of rain, I'm heading to the ramp and if I don't make it I have a 750 GPH bilge pump that, at a minimum, will at least get me to the bank and I'm okay with that.

 

[RiverBottomOutdoors]

Ha... Like I said, some people are a little overzealous about foam.

 

[bigwave]

Everyone has heard the old saying about opinions, they are like assxxxxx, everyone has one....that being said I am more worried about getting hit by lightning than I am about sinking. :lol: I am just trying to joke here....foam is important.

Someone posted that there a bunch of great people with lots of good advise on this website, I total agree. Everyone should just take each others opinions with a grain of salt.....try not to attack each other and learn from trial and error. I think that most people take personal safety as a number one priority foam or no foam..to each his own.

 

[jigngrub]

I think that most people take personal safety as a number one priority foam or no foam..to each his own.

Personal safety is second for me, the safety of my passengers comes first. My family and friends fish with me and their safety is utmost in my mind when they're in the boat.

 

[JamesM56alum]

We have some extremely uptight people on this forum... :roll:

 

[bigwave]

I think that most people take personal safety as a number one priority foam or no foam..to each his own.

Personal safety is second for me, the safety of my passengers comes first. My family and friends fish with me and their safety is utmost in my mind when they're in the boat.

Most of the time I fish alone or with my dog. If I have a friend or family on my boat they come first....of course. My jonboat is just that.....for my offshore boat I have all the necessary equipment. We travel with two epirbs, more pfd than passengers,vhf handheld,sat phone, flare kits, mre's, first aid kit,a couple of 9mm,and even a de-fibulatror, and a self contained life raft. When your more than 100nm offshore the coasties are at least 30mins away. In my jonboat this is overkill since I could walk to land from most of the spots I fish from. Most people know their limits, some people do not.

 

[PSG-1]

Well, after thinking about everything, I went to a building supply store today, and I bought a billet of closed-cell foam (the type that was once commonly used for floating docks) to put some pieces in my jetboat.

Already got a block cut to fit on the starboard side, in front of the fuel tank, it's about 8x12x12" Not sure what the buoyancy per cubic foot is for this stuff, but there's a little less than a cubic foot in this block on the starboard side, so, at least there's something there now, besides an empty space to fill with water if the boat starts sinking.

Tomorrow, I'll drill out the rivets on the port deck plate, and see if there's any place I can put a block of foam on that side. I do have to consider that there is a muffler/waterbox on that side, and it can get rather warm, so, I can't locate the foam too close to it, and I probably need to use a piece of aluminum sheet as a heat shield. Worst case scenario, if there's no room for a block of foam, the waterbox is about 10 inches in diameter, and about a foot long, and mostly filled with air, so, that will provide SOME buoyancy.

Also, the bow area is lacking in foam, I noticed that when I installed the prow lights. So, I'll see if I can remove the prow lights, and cut small pieces of foam, and put them in there (yeah, it's not a solid piece of foam like it should be, but at least something is better than nothing).

Once it's all done, I'll feel better about the seaworthiness of the boat.

 

[richg99]

Foam that fills an empty cavity will give you a better chance of floating as opposed to sinking.

From what I've read, foam...sealed water bottles...cork...etc. replace the space that water might take up. They don't add "buoyancy" on their own. But....they prevent water from filling that very same space.

I found this article of interest.

https://www.instructables.com/id/Project-rRaft-Building-a-Raft-out-of-Water-Bottl/

Rich

 

[jigngrub]

Well, after thinking about everything, I went to a building supply store today, and I bought a billet of closed-cell foam (the type that was once commonly used for floating docks) to put some pieces in my jetboat.

Already got a block cut to fit on the starboard side, in front of the fuel tank, it's about 8x12x12" Not sure what the buoyancy per cubic foot is for this stuff, but there's a little less than a cubic foot in this block on the starboard side, so, at least there's something there now, besides an empty space to fill with water if the boat starts sinking.

Tomorrow, I'll drill out the rivets on the port deck plate, and see if there's any place I can put a block of foam on that side. I do have to consider that there is a muffler/waterbox on that side, and it can get rather warm, so, I can't locate the foam too close to it, and I probably need to use a piece of aluminum sheet as a heat shield. Worst case scenario, if there's no room for a block of foam, the waterbox is about 10 inches in diameter, and about a foot long, and mostly filled with air, so, that will provide SOME buoyancy.

Also, the bow area is lacking in foam, I noticed that when I installed the prow lights. So, I'll see if I can remove the prow lights, and cut small pieces of foam, and put them in there (yeah, it's not a solid piece of foam like it should be, but at least something is better than nothing).

Once it's all done, I'll feel better about the seaworthiness of the boat.

Closed cell foam, EPS or 2 part urethane floats about 60 lbs. per cubic foot.