Insulating an existing livewell

[Quackrstackr]

Hello folks, long time no see.

I have drug my feet for over 5 years now over doing something about my factory livewell. It's all aluminum construction, built onto the front of the console and is completely exposed. Saying that the water heats up in a hurry given the color of the boat is an understatement, even in colder months. I have grown tired of having to add ice to keep the fish alive or winding up with dead fish when I run off and forget it (like I did this past Sunday on a crappie outing). It doesn't have a livewell timer either (but it will soon).

I have decided to put some insulation inside it and hopefully keep the water cooler for a much longer duration. It has to go inside because I don't want insulation stuck to the outside because the entire well is exposed. I found some info yesterday on a boating site about using the foil/bubble/foil insulation. It's taylor made to reflect radiant and convective heat absorbed through metal siding or roofing, so it should be ideal. It is also only 5/16" or so thick so it won't cut down on the livewell capacity very much. I am figuring to cut to fit the inner panels on all sides and then glue them in with silicone. The stuff is waterproof so as long as I seal the inner corner seams, I shouldn't have much of a problem with water getting behind it.

The only drawback that I can see is that I don't know how long it will stand up to fish pounding into it. Largemouth can get rather fiesty in there right after they are put in. I figure by glueing it in with silicone, I can peel panels out and replace them fairly easilly if I ever need to. Well, another drawback will be that it covers up my Tinboats decal that has been inside the lid for years now giving Jim some advertisement on social media sites... :lol:

Has anyone used this type of insulation in a livewell and if so, how well did it work?


https://www.lowes.com/pd_13357-56291-BP24025_0__?productId=3011904&Ntt=radiant+insulation&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dradiant%2Binsulation&facetInfo=

 

[TheMaestro]

i havent used it in a livewell, but I used it to insulate the wood sidepanel next to our dishwasher. I had a problem where the heating element and drain and fill hose/pipes are right against the end wood panel, and the heat blackened and brittled the wood. I replaced the wood with an identical piece from the cabinetmaker, but lined it with this insulation. Ithas worked very well, and whereas before the wood panel would be hot to the touch, it is now cool to the touch, and the insulation looks unaffected. Hope this gives you some insight.

 

[Quackrstackr]

I ran to Lowe's a bit ago and picked up a roll to try out. I'll post up the results after I get it installed and have a chance to see what kind of difference it makes.

 

[Quackrstackr]

Here are a couple of in process shots. I ran out of daylight last night at about the halfway point. I am using double sided fiberglass carpet tape to hold the insulation in place while the silicone can set up behind it to seal out water intrusion between the insulation and aluminum. The carpet tape is strong enough that it would hold the insulation in by itself if I wasn't worried about water getting trapped behind it. The insulation that they had available was 3/16" thick, water, rot and mildew proof and weighs absolutely nothing. It also cuts like butter either with a pair of scizzors or a utility knife. I still have to cover 2 sides and the lid then seal the seams.

Notice the old skool Tinboats decal that is unfortunately going to get covered over. #-o

 

[dawgfish66]

Well................how did it work?

 

[Quackrstackr]

Works like a charm. I installed a livewell timer on it too.

It now keeps crappie alive for over 6 hours in high 80 degree temps. They are all still lively when I get home with them. Keeping fish alive for over 30 minutes in the summer was tough before the modifications.

 

[dawgfish66]

That's good to know....I am in the process of building an aluminum live well and was looking for ways and materials to use to insulate it. Would you recommend using this product on the outside of a box that I totally have access to or is there anything else out there that would be better? (spray foam, insulation...ect) It will be decked over and unseen....

 

[Quackrstackr]

I'm sure the thicker your insulation, the better. I was in need of something that could be mounted internally since my livewell is exposed.

 

[acabtp]

i think this was a great idea, but you chose the wrong material to use. the foil facing on the material is not helping where you have installed it for two reasons: 1- radiant barriers cannot be in contact with other materials (like the tank walls or water) when installed or they are not effective (an air space is required) and 2- there isn't radiation going on inside the livewell anyway.

there are three ways that heat is transferred. radiation, conduction, and convection. the sun beating down on the livewell and heating it is by radiation: the radiation (visible light, infrared, ultraviolet, etc.) from the sun transfers energy to (heats) the outside of the livewell walls. the livewell walls heating the tank water is conduction: they are in physical contact and the heat is being transferred directly from the wall to the water. convection doesn't play a significant roll here in the livewell.

the foil facing is a radiant barrier and the bubblepack core is insulation. radiant barriers block radiation and insulation blocks conduction. installed where it is, on the inside of the livewell, the foil facing is not doing anything. the only thing that is helping you is the 3/16" air gap created by the bubble core, which is better than nothing, but still provides way less than even an R-1 value insulation.

a better choice would be to use extruded polystyrene (XPS) insulation (the pink, blue or green boards) on the inside of the tank. XPS is insulation: a conductive barrier, the 'right tool for the job'. plus it is cheap, will last forever, requires no air space for proper insulation and there is no lining to worry about fish damaging.

Home Depot/Lowes/etc. push these radiant barriers like they are the best thing since sliced bread... but most people have no idea the differences between the three modes of heat transfer... or that the radiant barriers are completely ineffective when installed incorrectly. sorry for the long post and i don't mean to put you down or anything. like i said, insulating the livewell i think is a great idea. but i am an engineer, and this is freshman year thermodynamics stuff so i just had to point out the problem so that if anyone else decides to do so, they don't also buy the foil faced "insulation".

if anybody has any follow up heat flow questions, i am happy to help 8)

 

[Quackrstackr]

I also have an engineering degree and apparently you did not read my initial thread post. While it may not be it's optimal installation, it certainly cuts down convective heat.

Because of the shape of my livewell, I would have had to cut rigid insulation into multiple pieces just to pass it through the livewell opening. The radiant insulation can be cut into much larger pieces and rolled or flexed into a small piece to cover much more surface area.

XPS may not have a liner but it can certainly be damaged by fish and would be much harder to chip out in little chunks to replace after damage than peeling off an entire sheet.

In essence, whatever floats your boat, but the radiant insulation works just as I had intended for my purpose.

 

[fender66]

For durability to the wrap you installed....you might want to put sheets of centra or thin plexiglass over it. You can then caulk or seal the edges with whatever. Will make the wrap untouchable by the fish.

Looks nice though and good to see you back.

 

[acabtp]

Quackrstackr » Today, 13:04[/url]"]I also have an engineering degree and apparently you did not read my initial thread post. While it may not be it's optimal installation

no, i read it, i just wanted to make sure that nobody else wasted money/time to do it your way when they could do it right. it's a good idea, with poor execution, and since you posted it up like a how-to, i just wanted to point out the obvious flaws, before someone who doesn't know any better just copies what you did.

 

[Zum]

Sometimes when I read stuff on the internet I just shake my head....

 

[fender66]

Play nice boys and girls.....or there won't be any playing at all.

Please.

 

[Ranchero50]

You guys are doing it the hard way, lol :wink:

Microscopic glass beads suspended in white roofing paint sprayed on with an undercoating gun. 1/16" layer made a huge difference in heat transfer on my diesel converted '71 F350 cab. A drop light against the door would burn you on the outside but barely be warm on the inside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_microsphere

https://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/item/aircraft-fillers/micro-balloons/b23-500--g?

1 gallon of bubbles to 1 gallon of paint. Just don't stir to violently or the bubbles will break.

Don't just take my word for it, Google poor mans lizard skin.