Trolling motor battery preferences

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Very Good Topic =D> Purching the right battery is confusing for a lot of people - incl me..........lol
Here's a handy little guide that I came across. Found it useful when I needed a conclusion for battery choices.
bobby

Choose the right battery chemistry

Marine batteries are available in three chemical types: flooded, Gel and AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat). Which type you choose is based on your needs (deep cycle vs. starting), the capacity and lifespan you are looking for, and your budget.

Flooded batteries, unlike other types, use a reservoir of liquid sulfuric acid to act as a pathway between positive and negative plates, which produce hydrogen and oxygen when the battery is being charged. Vented wet cell batteries allow the gases to escape into the atmosphere, unlike gel and AGM batteries, which recombine the gases and re-introduce them to the system. Vented hydrogen is an explosive gas, so battery boxes and compartments must be vented to let the gas escape safely outside the boat. Flooded deep-cycle batteries require maintenance-periodic inspection and topping-off with distilled water.

Flooded batteries handle overcharging better than gel and AGM batteries, because of this hydrogen venting and because they are not sealed like the other types. They self-discharge at a higher rate (6 to 7% per month) and thus require off-season charging. Wet cells must be installed in an upright position and do not tolerate high amounts of vibration. Their initial cost is lower than similarly sized AGM or gel batteries. Properly charged and maintained, our premium wet cell deep-cycle batteries are capable of between a few hundred and over a thousand discharge cycles, which can translate to many years of dependable service.

Gel Batteries: The SVR design nearly eliminates gassing, so they are safer to install around people and sensitive electronics (but gel and AGM batteries still need to be vented). Gel batteries are manufactured to very high standards of quality and consistency, since it is not possible to add water or gain access to the interior. The "gel" is a combination of sulfuric acid, fumed silica, pure water and phosphoric acid. After mixing during manufacturing to a thin liquid form, it is sucked into each cell by vacuum pressure up to six times, eliminating voids and air pockets on the plates that would cause dead spots and reduce performance. Once it is in place, the gel becomes quite viscous, which prevents leaks if the battery is inverted or the case is damaged.

Charging causes a small amount of hydrogen and oxygen to be generated at the plates, like a flooded battery, but the pressure inside the cells combines the gasses to create water (so they are called "recombinant" batteries). This keeps the battery from drying out due to charging, but it also requires that the vessel’s charging system be very carefully regulated to prevent high voltage over-charging.

AGM batteries: Sealed Valve-Regulated AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries feature fine, highly porous microfiber glass separators compressed tightly between the battery’s positive and negative plates, which are saturated with just enough acid electrolyte to activate the battery. During charging, precision pressure valves allow oxygen produced on the positive plate to migrate to the negative plate and recombine with the hydrogen, producing water. In addition to providing equal saturation across the entire surface of the battery’s positive and negative plates, the fibers in the dense glass mats embed themselves into the plates’ surface like reinforcing rods in concrete, providing more plate support and better shock and vibration protection than in conventional batteries.

High-density AGM batteries have lower internal resistance, allowing greater starting power and charge acceptance, and quicker recharging than other types of deep cycle batteries. High acceptance means that AGM batteries can accept the highest charging current, up to 40% of the amp hour capacity of the battery, compared to about 25% for the other two battery chemistries. Long life, a low 3% self-discharge rate and outstanding performance make AGM batteries excellent dual-purpose batteries for boaters who require quick starting power and reliable deep cycle ability.

Battery tips for best performance

No matter what kind of battery chemistry you choose, follow these recommendations to get the best performance:

•Stay with one battery chemistry (flooded, gel, or AGM.) Each battery type requires specific charging voltages. Mixing battery types can result in under- or over-charging. This may mean replacing all batteries on board at the same time.
•Never mix old batteries with new ones in the same bank. While it seems like this would increase your overall capacity, old batteries tend to pull down the new ones to their deteriorated level.
•Regulate charge voltages based on battery temperature and acceptance (manually or with sensing) to maximize battery life and reduce charge time. Ensure that your charging system is capable of delivering sufficient amperage to charge battery banks efficiently. This generally means an alternator with 25% to 40% as many amperes as the capacity of your entire battery bank.
•Keep batteries clean, cool and dry.
•Check terminal connectors regularly to avoid loss of conductivity.
•Add distilled water to flooded lead acid batteries when needed. Keep them charged. Leaving them in a discharged state for any length of time will damage them and lower their capacity.
•Clean corrosion with a paste of baking soda and water.

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Need more juice?
If your boat came from the factory with only one battery, or with two batteries of inadequate size, consider installing a second battery bank. Boats often need two banks to have a second "reserve" bank to be sure the engine will start, or to have a large "house" bank so you can run bigger DC loads for longer time periods. If you are installing a reserve starting battery, you can usually ensure enough amps of cranking power by duplicating the type and size of your original battery. To install a "house" bank, you should probably invest in a quality deep cycle battery.

Marine Batteries
Starting batteries are similar to automotive batteries. They can supply lots of current for a short period of time, but like to be recharged almost immediately and are not tolerant of deep discharges. They are appropriate as the single battery for ski boats, runabouts, personal watercraft, and other boats with minimal DC loads where the engine is always running.

Deep–cycle batteries can endure repeated deep discharging and recharging without damage. They are appropriate for sailboats, fishing boats, and all other boats with larger DC power requirements. Any battery used to power onboard DC loads (lighting, trolling motors, inverters, etc.) should be a quality deep–cycle battery.
 
shawnfish said:
turbotodd said:
I own a drag car. 2 years ago I bought a 16v AGM battery for it, along with "The V" battery charger. Works well. The charger is DESIGNED for AGM batteries only, works for 12v and 16v.

Anyway, I pulled the Optima red top out of the race car and used it in my boat. I charge it up after each use with "The V" charger. And this time of year, I use the boat about once a week...more often soon as the nights are getting warmer and I can go after work.

I run ONE battery. 1542 boat, 25 Yamaha 4 stroke Electric start, nav lights, courtesy lights, Q beam, and Motorguide W45 wireless trolling motor. Ran the trolling motor almost 7 hours straight last Monday on lower speeds (trolling/bass fishing) and the outboard motor started right up when I was too sunburned to fish any longer.

And to think that I bought that Optima in Feb 2001. IMO, hard to beat an Optima battery.

Next project...going to try the 16v battery on my old hand control trolling motor. Should be interesting but I am not expecting anything out of the ordinary as ALL of the 12v accessories (datalogger and all) in the race car work find on 16v, which charges at almost 19v when the charger is plugged in. Headlights are brighter, taillights are brighter, and the E-fan sounds like it's cleared for take off.


hey turbotodd, a few questions....

1. do you know what a new redtop equal to yours costs now?

2. have you ever checked the voltage after a trip like that?

3. do you think its a good idea to run a 16 volt on a 12 volt system?

4. is the battery 11 or 2 yrs old? you said 2 years ago you bought an agm batt. and v charger for your drag car and said you pulled the same battery out of your drag car and put it in your boat and ran it all day. and then to think you bought that optima in feb 2001. im confused i think....

if i were you i would not run a 16 volt battery on your boat or on anything designed for a 12 volt system, now im no electrician but im sure they have the 12 and 16 volt batteries for a reason and its not so that the user can decide he needs or wants a few more volts its because they are designed to run two different systems. this much i do know, running that 16 on your trolling motor is a bad bad idea. its a 12 volt motor for a reason, its designed to be ran by a 12 volt battery and also trolling motors are designed to run off a deep cycle so it gets slow steady voltage to the motor and if your running a drag car with that battery thats like your trolling motor sticking its fingers in a wall socket.

oh and why do you think people dont use deep cycles to start their outboards? because you would kill your battery because its not designed for it.

dont take this like im saying your not smart because thats not my intention, just trying to maybe explain something to you that may not have fully understood.....

I understand basic 12v systems totally. I work on them daily (outboard/ATV/lawn & garden tech). THe battery that is in the boat (optima Red top) was bought brand new from the place I work at in 2001. It's marked on the bottom of the battery. It went into the race car originally. 2 years ago I put a 16v battery in the car, at which time I removed the Optima. At that time I had a bass boat with an onboard charger-sold the boat roughly 3 months later, kept the optima battery put that same optima into my 1542.

When I put the 16v into the car, I bought "The V" charger at the same time...it was the only 16v charger available at the time (all backordered). Just happened to be 12v and 16v compatible via rocker switch. 16v battery is a VERY popular swap among us drag racers. There is only one downside.....if the charger dies while at the track, not everyone has a 16v charger that you could borrow. THat is the only downside. Everything that was originally 12v works just fine. Actually if you think about it, all 12v automotive accessories actually run at about 14.5 volts with the alternator running anyway. And I've seen alternators fail and charge 20-25v before. Boils the battery but doesn't seem to hurt any of the sensitive ECU's or ignition "boxes". I run a digital MSD 7 box on the race car. Runs fine on 16v. The reason most of us drag racers run 16v is due to camshaft timing and today's camshaft profiles. I am only running 438 cubic inches at 15.8:1 compression, but it's the cam timing (specifically the intake valve closing point) which dictates the cranking compression pressure. In my case 295 psi. Cam is not right but most are cranking 235-250, which takes a heck of a starter. Even on 12v sometimes they will not crank fast enough light. So years ago some moron tried 16v. It worked awesome; as it does on mine. 2 years so far and nary a single issue with it-and yes it's all still a full 12v system. Keep in mind, there are only 6 circuits total. Ignition, fan, water pump, running lights, interior fan, and brake lights. Fuel pump is mechanical. Oh also I occasionally run a crossover delay and transbrake-but not very often. Some guys with the really big motors (700 cubic inch +) actually crank the engines at 24v and run 12v system. THey light quicker that way. It's done using a series parallel switch; or some guys use a pair of Ford starter solenoids to do the same thing.

If I decide to run it in the boat, it's my old trolling motor (which I paid NOTHING for)...if it burns it up, I'm out nothing. Doubt it will though. IF the wires catch fire & burn the boat, I'll jump out and stand up. that boat gets used in 2-3 feet of water 99.9% of the time. I did see some deep water last week. About 5 feet. I am too scared to try cranking the little 25 HP motor on my other boat with 16v though, for fear of hurting the stator and rectifier. I won't be doing that. Just want to try the trolling motor on my other boat (12 foot flatbottom with a trolling motor only).

New red tops are roughly $189 locally.
Checked voltage after returning home the other day...was still 12.3 volts. Keep in mind, the Yamaha charges it while running, and I had to run about a 2 miles at ~24 mph back to the ramp, so it had some time to charge. CHecked it just now. 12.8. But it's been on the 12/16 charger for a few hours.

Maybe I'm lucky. Also my truck still has the original battery in it. It was assembled 1/18/03, which is the day it rolled off the assembly line. Speaking of which I think I'm going to go get a new one as I would hate for it to die several hundred miles away from civilization.

Couple things about batteries. If you overcharge it or overheat it, it will never last. If it sits for long periods of time without use, it won't last. If it's not initially put into service properly, using the proper charger, it will not last. If the fluid level drops inside of it, or uncovers the cells, it won't last. Those are just a few good reasons to get a GOOD charger designed for your particular battery. And don't buy a typical flooded cell battery from walmart because they SIT on the shelf for who knows how long, and sit in a warehouse for who knows how long before the retailer gets it. That's 2 reasons they don't seem to last as long as a good quality battery from a source that sells fresh batteries. AGM and gell cell batteries aren't as prone to premature failure by their design, which is one reason they're becoming more & more popular in motorsports applications. Especially off road vehicles that will bounce around. A flooded battery tends to foam and uncover the cells often, which lets heat build inside the battery and usually kills them quicker than an AGM or gel battery. A gel can be run upside down, on it's side, ends, or any which way you'd like.
 
FuzzyGrub said:
bassin4fun said:
and be sure to drain the battery quite far before charging. Don't charge every time used, this will wear them out quicker!

They should be charged after every use. Never let them sit for any period in a discharged state. All mfg recommendations say to charge immediatly after use and NOT to deeply discharge them.
Not to cause a big disagreement.....I do agree with not totally discharging any battery. But, batteries are rated for a certain number of 'cycles' in the lifetime. If I'm out on the water for an afternoon with a fully charged batt. and I only use it for less than an hour run time, I will not charge right away. I can do this same trip 4-5x before needing a charge. Every time a charger is put to a battery it is considered a 'cycle'. If I am doubtful of my battery state, I put a quick load test on it the day before I plan to use it and charge accordingly. Just saying, I would rather use every 'cycle' towards a good healthy charge rather than use some up for "top offs"....... If it is going to be a while before I use again, I do run a 2A trickle to the battery though, just to keep it 'active'.

I do agree, batterywise, ya get what ya pay for. But, any battery (or boat, or motor, or just about anything else!) Will perform only as well as the owner treats, maintains it.
 
bassin4fun said:
FuzzyGrub said:
bassin4fun said:
and be sure to drain the battery quite far before charging. Don't charge every time used, this will wear them out quicker!

They should be charged after every use. Never let them sit for any period in a discharged state. All mfg recommendations say to charge immediatly after use and NOT to deeply discharge them.
Not to cause a big disagreement.....I do agree with not totally discharging any battery. But, batteries are rated for a certain number of 'cycles' in the lifetime. If I'm out on the water for an afternoon with a fully charged batt. and I only use it for less than an hour run time, I will not charge right away. I can do this same trip 4-5x before needing a charge. Every time a charger is put to a battery it is considered a 'cycle'. If I am doubtful of my battery state, I put a quick load test on it the day before I plan to use it and charge accordingly. Just saying, I would rather use every 'cycle' towards a good healthy charge rather than use some up for "top offs"....... If it is going to be a while before I use again, I do run a 2A trickle to the battery though, just to keep it 'active'.

I do agree, batterywise, ya get what ya pay for. But, any battery (or boat, or motor, or just about anything else!) Will perform only as well as the owner treats, maintains it.

The number of charge cycles you can get out of a battery varies by many factors and variables. It is not a set number that you use, and it is toast. Ie you put a charge on it for 10 minutes to "top" it off vs a 8 hour charge. If that is what you want to do, so be it. But, please show a mfg that recommends the practice you use.
 
I use AC Delco Voyager batteries. I've had nothing but good experiences with them - I'll always look for them first but they are getting hard to find where I live.
 
FuzzyGrub said:
The number of charge cycles you can get out of a battery varies by many factors and variables. It is not a set number that you use, and it is toast. Ie you put a charge on it for 10 minutes to "top" it off vs a 8 hour charge. If that is what you want to do, so be it. But, please show a mfg that recommends the practice you use.

x2. Even if this were so, why would a "top off" be considered a full cycle? Wouldn't batteries have to be rated in terms of discharge and charge times, not cycles.
 
Some info I found for a start,

Cycles vs Life

A battery "cycle" is one complete discharge and recharge cycle. It is usually considered to be discharging from 100% to 20%, and then back to 100%. However, there are often ratings for other depth of discharge cycles, the most common ones are 10%, 20%, and 50%. You have to be careful when looking at ratings that list how many cycles a battery is rated for unless it also states how far down it is being discharged. For example, one of the widely advertised telephone type (float service) batteries have been advertised as having a 20-year life. If you look at the fine print, it has that rating only at 5% DOD - it is much less when used in an application where they are cycled deeper on a regular basis. Those same batteries are rated at less than 5 years if cycled to 50%. For example, most golf cart batteries are rated for about 550 cycles to 50% discharge - which equates to about 2 years.

Battery life is directly related to how deep the battery is cycled each time. If a battery is discharged to 50% every day, it will last about twice as long as if it is cycled to 80% DOD. If cycled only 10% DOD, it will last about 5 times as long as one cycled to 50%. Obviously, there are some practical limitations on this - you don't usually want to have a 5 ton pile of batteries sitting there just to reduce the DOD. The most practical number to use is 50% DOD on a regular basis. This does NOT mean you cannot go to 80% once in a while. It's just that when designing a system when you have some idea of the loads, you should figure on an average DOD of around 50% for the best storage vs cost factor. Also, there is an upper limit - a battery that is continually cycled 5% or less will usually not last as long as one cycled down 10%. This happens because at very shallow cycles, the Lead Dioxide tends to build up in clumps on the the positive plates rather in an even film. The graph above shows how lifespan is affected by depth of discharge. The chart is for a Concorde Lifeline battery, but all lead-acid batteries will be similar in the shape of the curve, although the number of cycles will vary.

got this from https://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
 
Thanks for posting. I haven't see those particular words before. But, when I compared it to battery voltage for fully charged and 75% charged battery, 5% is next to nothing. Fully charged is 12.7V, 5% discharge is 12.64V, and 10% is 12.58V, and 75% is 12.4V. The only time I'd be near the 5% is on the mid-winter charge. Ie a float charger would operate in this range. I don't use a float charger. I have seen some DC mfg recommend not using a float charger.

After an hours use on a trolling motor, I'd bet your voltage is below the 5% mark, probably the 10%. Check it the next time out.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery
 
By the way for anyone who said it wouldn't work, I fished for a few hours earlier with my "old" trolling motor. 34 lb Minn Kota that's about 20 years old. Running it on 16v. Worked flawlessly other than it was a little faster. Noticed no more heat than it ever did on 12v. Ran fine. Didn't run it more than probably 45 min without stopping to fish a while but it worked. For how long I don't know but it worked. Monday I will run it all day if it lets me and see if/how long it lasts.
 
turbotodd said:
By the way for anyone who said it wouldn't work, I fished for a few hours earlier with my "old" trolling motor. 34 lb Minn Kota that's about 20 years old. Running it on 16v. Worked flawlessly other than it was a little faster. Noticed no more heat than it ever did on 12v. Ran fine. Didn't run it more than probably 45 min without stopping to fish a while but it worked. For how long I don't know but it worked. Monday I will run it all day if it lets me and see if/how long it lasts.

If you want to test it, run it on high for 1/2 hour or more.
 
jigngrub said:
Just an FYI, Wal-mart doesn't warranty their deep cycle batteries anymore. You get a bad one now and it's just tough noogies for you.

I just replaced my very last Everstart I'll ever buy. It lasted exactly a year. I replaced it with a Cabelas brand deep cycle that comes with an 18 month warranty. This is a sealed battery that needs no service. Yes it cost twice as much as an unwarrantied Wally battery, but there wasn't a core charge for my old batt. either. I figure if I get 2 years out of the Cabelas batt. that's one less time I have to fool with pulling the thing out of the boat.


I don't think that's quite true. Walmart I don't believe has ever personally warranted batteries. I was just there yesterday and looked a batteries that ranged from a 1-3 year warranty. Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying. But it's the mfg that supplies the warranty
 
I have two AGM batteries from Cabelas. One solely runs my 55 lb thrust minn Kota and the other is for starting my 25 hp Johnson and 565c hummingbird fish finder. I also bought the min Kota charger to charge these as you can not charge with typical chargers. I have had these for four years now and have not had a single issue. The nice part is that there is no acid or water level to worry about.
They are a little more expensive but are well worth it.

Kevin
 

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