Why the BSA style crank on 4stroke twins?

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Sinkingfast

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I'm dating myself here but why the side by side crank pin arrangement? I figured by now I would find or figure it out but not yet. Is it an outboard thing or sumpin else...

Kinda be neat to time it to fire both at same time...yea, need twin cams for that.

I'd even take guesses..
 
Makes more torque than a 180° crankshaft would, or a V-twin for that matter. The firing pulses are evenly spaced 360° apart instead of an odd firing 180 crankshaft (like a Ninja 250, 300, and 650)-which has zero torque to speak of, and the 90° V-twin's pulses are 270°, also an odd-firing engine.

Suzuki had a V-twin outboard. Flop. It vibrated quite a bit, due to the odd firing pulse-NOT because of the balance of the engine (the 90 deg V-twin doesn't suffer too much from imbalance vibration. I have run one and was nowhere near impressed with it. At low speed it felt like a 9.9. Once it was revved it felt more like a 25 should, but had a really good midrange, 3500-4500rpm. Then it kind of signed off up top. It was also a bigger (physically) motor-at least it looked and felt "big" to me.

One manufacturer tried a 180 deg crank in one of their motors and it had such little torque down low that it would not have been real popular. That's what I am told. I did not see one run and I didn't question an engineer's story. He talk, me listen.

Keep in mind that the intake and exhaust systems also are affected differently in outboards than a bike. The firing pulses also affect the intake manifold, so a V-twin with a single carb is typically going to have some roughness to it's idle at lower engine speeds (say, below 800 rpm). This is due to reversion in the intake manifold. A pair of carbs would solve it, but also add complexity, weight, and cost.

A 180 deg crank has a large split between the firing of one cylinder and the firing of another; same for the intake pulses. There is such a large split that it runs a little rough with a single carb; hence most of the parallel twins with 180 deg cranks have dual carbs-to help smooth out the idle.

Then there's the horizontally opposed twin. To make one live, at 6000 RPM, would require a ton of reinforcing material and perhaps even a counterbalancer. They are hard on crankshafts and blocks, they are usually large (wide) in comparison to a V or parallel twin, and keeping them together at extended operation at those engine speeds has been challenging without a lot of heavy parts. More weight, more complexity, bigger, not a good option for an outboard.

Hmm...big bang parallel twin Have someone make a cam. It could make good torque and be real responsive but my goodness I could not imagine the vibration! I'm pretty sure it'd shake my boat apart.

There's a lot more to it but that's the nuts and bolts of it.
 
Thanx for the read! I was thinking of the Harley Davidsons that were used for dirt track. I guess one would time one cyl to fire right after the other with a space before the next fire to let the rear wheel rebite into the ground. Probably different for props.

My 9.9/15 suffers from the unequal intake tract length at low speed just like the single carbed v's.

Tonight when I can't sleep I'll run both crank styles in my head. Maybe I can figure how crankpin placement will influence torque.


Edit...Okay reread and i get it now..Thanx.
 
Sinkingfast said:
Thanx for the read! I was thinking of the Harley Davidsons that were used for dirt track. I guess one would time one cyl to fire right after the other with a space before the next fire to let the rear wheel rebite into the ground. Probably different for props.


Yamaha also did this with their YZF-M1 road race bike, which then became the YZF-R1 in 2009. Instead of using a flat plate inline 4 cylinder, which places the firing pulses at every 180 degrees, they redesigned the crankshaft-and camshaft to match-so that if fires 3 cylinders 90 degrees apart and another one 270. It sounds weird from an engineering standpoint, but sounds "really" good (the exhaust note). The theory was the same. Give the tire more time to grab. But a side effect is that it's "extremely" responsive; such that the street version has a dual throttle setup; 2 butterflies in each throttle body (8 butterflies total). It slows the rate of engine acceleration. Without it, a human couldn't control it very well, and I have ridden one with the sub throttles removed, and it was a handful to say the very least. Yamaha was not the first to use a cross plane crankshaft with an inline 4 cylinder configuration; it's been done before but I think Yamaha actually perfected it-if "perfecting" is possible with an inline 4 crankshaft of this design. Maybe it should be re-worded as "as perfect as possible".

They've also done the same-or real similar with the FZ-07. Parallel twin 700 cc but the crank pins are at 90° from each other, which makes it run and sound like a V-twin. It's impressive. Sounds great, it's smaller, narrower, and lighter than a V-twin, less complex, and makes excellent torque. Fun bike to ride. My favorite to be honest; of all of the "sport" bikes. I used to be partial to the 650 Ninja and Versys, but when I rode an FZ07, I fell in love with it.

But that tech doesn't work well with an outboard which is under constant load; and needs to idle smoothly under a load at 750-900 RPM. The "cross plane" design of the two examples I spoke of don't lend themselves to smooth idle. On a bike frame they're pretty smooth but put one in gear, take off and then lug it back down to around 1000 RPM. It'll shake quite a bit-if it'll even run. The long period between firing pulses can help contribute to a loaded engine becoming unstable at lower speeds.

Keep in mind also that a parallel twin 360° firing is exactly the same firing pulse as a single cylinder 2 stroke. Difference being that the idle quality is a little better than a 2 stroke is. Perhaps that was a consideration when choosing the BSA style crankshaft design? I don't know. I'm no engineer. Thus, with the 360° crankshaft, the arguement that ETEC uses (a firing pulse every revolution) is not exclusive to the 2 stroke design as it also happens with a parallel twin 4 stroke with the 360° crankshaft.
 
Just add 50 lbs of flywheel to smooth things out :lol:

I've owned only one 4stroke twin..Honda 450..might have been 350..many years ago. Never gave crank logistics a thought.
 
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