a new jet ski jet boat project

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scubapro820 said:
i just f'ed up really bad i think! i started the hose and had the boat on a reverse incline and the motor filled with water i pulled the plugs and ran it till no water blew out and it looked like water was dripping out of.the crankcase on the bottom a few inches from the stator and crank.side ends

First thing....don't panic! It's not as bad as you think. As someone who's ridden jet skis for the last 30 years, I've swamped more than my share of engines, in salt water, at that.....so, I know how to deal with the problem of a water-flooded engine.

Not sure how that could have happened, as the cooling system works on the principle of total loss....meaning, all the water that flows in, should flow out.

While flushing, part of the water should be flowing from the fitting inside your jet pump.

Some of the water should also be exiting the discharge/indicator stream fittings.

And, finally, some water should flow from a fitting on the head pipe, into the waterbox, and this water should flow from the exhaust fitting.

The only reason your engine would fill with water, would be turning on the garden hose before starting the engine. Remember, with an outboard, it's water on, engine on, engine off, water off. With a PWC engine, it's engine on, water on, water off, engine off.

If not this, then the other culprit would be a blockage in one of the discharge hoses, such as the thru-hull, or the line from the head pipe to the waterbox. Again, check for water flow at the exhaust, the indicator fitting, and at the jet pump.

You did the right thing by pulling the plugs and turning it over. You should also try turning it over with the bow of the boat tilted down, then up, so that any water in the crankcase can find its way to a cylinder and blow out of there. It would REALLY be preferable to turn the engine upside down while turning it over, as this is the SOP for clearing water from a swamped jet ski engine. But if that's not possible, you keep pulling the plugs and turning it over, then running it, and repeating until you've got it dried out. Don't leave it wet, it will rust.


After you're sure you've got it reasonably dried out, you should also put a shot of fogging oil in each cylinder, to keep it from rusting before you get the problem assessed.

Once you've got the problem addressed, crank the engine, and run it for a good amount of time to help burn off any remaining water, or get it moving around. Then pull the plugs, and try blowing it again, to make sure you've got all the water out.
 
Got.it.running well I had water in fuel about a gallon and managed to clear the engine of water hope I didn't severely damage the engine
 
Ur right I was a dumbass and started the hose b4 running it and after.driing it has a massive amount of water.in the fuel.tank last time I checked engines don't burn h2o lol fixed both issues will fog the engine tomorrow
 
scubapro820 said:
Got.it.running well I had water in fuel about a gallon and managed to clear the engine of water hope I didn't severely damage the engine

Trust me, you didn't. Like I said, I've swamped plenty of jet skis over the years, doing tricks like 'submarine' and 'fire hose' (check out my video 'super jet') and this being done in salt water, not fresh water from the garden hose.

Also, since you did not have the engine under a load (prop in the water) and since you weren't turning high RPM's (were you?) there wouldn't be a heavy enough load on the crankshaft to damage anything, even with some water in the crankcase.

The trick is to make sure you get all the water out, by blowing it out of the cylinders, and also by running it some, to 'cook off' any remaining water.


I'm not sure how you got water in your fuel, unless the water backed up into the cylinders far enough to enter the carbs, then flowing from the return line back to the tank. That's the only possible way I see that happening. If that's so, you might want to go ahead and service the carbs, take them apart and clean them, then re-install.
 
scubapro820 said:
Ur right I was a dumbass and started the hose b4 running it and after.driing it has a massive amount of water.in the fuel.tank last time I checked engines don't burn h2o lol fixed both issues will fog the engine tomorrow


Don't feel bad. This is a common mistake with PWC owners that are accustomed to the method of flushing an outboard.

The difference in the cooling systems is that the OBM is fed from a water pump, with the impeller fixed to the driveshaft. So, the instant the engine is cranked, the impeller is turning. Run it dry, and you've just burned up the impeller. Also, any water that is being forced to the system while the engine is not running, like from the garden hose flusher.....drains back out through passages, and with the motor being vertical, this occurs easily.

On the PWC, the cooling system is fed by pressure from the jet pump, there is no water pump impeller. Therefore, dry starting will not hurt a PWC, but they should never be run for more than 30 seconds without water, as they have aluminum blocks, and if you overheat the block, it will likely warp, causing engine failure down the road.

HOWEVER, and this is where the issue is.....the PWC engine is configured horizontally, and it also has a water box on the exhaust system. Under normal operation, water flows from a fitting on the head pipe to the waterbox, and serves to cool the waterbox, as well as baffling some of the exhaust noise. As the engine operates, the exhaust pressure from the engine is enough to keep water blowing out of the waterbox.

But, if the engine is not running, and water is forced through the system, there is no exhaust pressure to blow the water out of the waterbox, and it begins to fill up, until it flows back into the exhaust passages of the engine, then into the engine itself (about like running a hose at full pressure up the exhaust pipe of a vehicle while it's not running) [-X

Again, as long as you blow as much water from the crankcase as you can, service the carbs (or at least drain the contaminated fuel, replace it with fresh fuel, and change the fuel filter) then run the engine for a while, you've learned a lesson the hard way, but with no real damage done.

When you DO start it up, if you haven't already, I can almost bet that a massive amount of water will surge from the exhaust fitting, where it's accumulated in the water box.
 
https://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l628/scubapro820/?action=view&current=VIDEO0013.mp4 very poor video but it didnt sink or blow up!

problems

1: Cap flew off the extra water outlet,
2:spark plug insulator broke Not sure why, Was a slow trip home
3: minor leaks
4: pitch on the impeller is not correct the engine easily over revvs
5: HOLY GOD ITS LOUD " thank you hearing protection"
6: it idles quite high 3-4,500rpm
7: top speed with 3 ppl 575lbs 32mph

whats not wrong
1: steering
2: Trim
3: electronics
4: bilge/ guages
5: no cavitation!
 
scubapro820 said:
https://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l628/scubapro820/?action=view&current=VIDEO0013.mp4 very poor video but it didnt sink or blow up!

I watched the video, with my head tilted to the right....LOL Other than the camera being sideways, good video! Good enough that I was able to hear and see enough to help assess a few things, at least.

As far as no sinking or blowing up....well, that's 2 major things that did not go wrong, and that's always a good thing.


problems

1: Cap flew off the extra water outlet,
2:spark plug insulator broke Not sure why, Was a slow trip home
3: minor leaks
4: pitch on the impeller is not correct the engine easily over revvs
5: HOLY GOD ITS LOUD " thank you hearing protection"
6: it idles quite high 3-4,500rpm
7: top speed with 3 ppl 575lbs 32mph

1. Extra water outlet: Are you referring to the one on the pump?

I noticed the stream of water shooting way off to the starboard side..... this is from the fitting on the top right side on your jet pump that would normally hook to the 'enema' fitting on the Yamaha jet skis (that silly little stream of water they have that shoots straight up) Know what I did with that fitting on my boat? I ran it to a quick connect deck fitting, for a wash down hose connection.

100_0500.JPG

100_0501.JPG

Yeah, you have to be running at speed for it to have any pressure, but it works pretty good. I can run along, and use my little coil hose with the spray nozzle, and rinse mud and junk off the deck.

100_0502.JPG



2. Broken spark plug insulator: Only a couple of things cause this....accidentally dropping a plug, or something striking the plug, both of which will crack the insulator. In the process of taking the plugs out, while blowing water out, it is possible you dropped one, or possibly banged an adjacent plug with the wrench while removing one of the plugs. NEVER re-use a dropped/impacted plug...it ain't worth the potential engine damage that can result.

3. Minor leaks: Are the leaks from hoses and fittings, or hull leaks? Either way, they're minor, and I'm sure you'll get those addressed.

4: Impeller pitch: If you don't think the pitch is right, you can have the prop re-pitched. Look up "Impros Impeller Repair" They can build up worn down props, sharpen them, and they can also re-pitch them to whatever you want. You should talk to one of the techs, and give them your info, such as boat weight, type of engine, type of pump, and they can help figure out what pitch will help the boat run its best. With my XL1200 pump, I've run a Solas X prop in 14.5/17, had good results with that. Right now, I'm running a Solas Concord prop in 13/19 pitch.

5: LOUD....yep, that's one thing about Tigersharks, they are loud as hell. You might consider building a platform on your transom like I did with my boat. When I had the TS engine, this platform helped to quiet it down a LOT. And then when I put the 4 stroke in there, from the shore, you don't even hear the boat unless it's moving away from you.


100_0503.JPG


100_0504.JPG

Also, you don't have a cowling. You should consider fabricating one, and lining the inside of it, and the engine well, with some egg crate foam. You'd be amazed what a difference that will make. Also it will protect your engine from the elements, or being damaged if you get swamped.


6. High Idle: Make sure your idle stop screw on the front carb is properly adjusted, and make sure that your throttle cable has some slack, there should be a small amount of travel in the throttle lever before you see the throttle linkage move. The idle should be set out of the water, at about 1750 RPM. In the water, with a load on the prop, it'll be about 1100 RPM. Don't set the idle in the water, because it will idle too high out of the water, when you take the load off the prop.


7. Top speed 32 MPH. Is that a GPS'ed speed, or according to a speedometer? Also, remember that the pilothouse on your boat is going to create a lot of wind drag. I have a T-top that bolts onto my jetboat for wintertime use, when I have it on there, I lose a few MPH's because of the wind drag. Also, re-pitching the prop may help. You want the impeller pitch to allow the engine to operate at its max RPM, but don't over-pitch it too high, or the engine will not reach full RPM, and it will be under a much heavier load. Under-pitching has the opposite effect....15 MPH at 7 grand, LOL Again, the folks at Impros should be able to help you out.



whats not wrong
1: steering
2: Trim
3: electronics
4: bilge/ guages
5: no cavitation!




I figured the steering would be right when I saw the photos of the cable installed.

Having working trim is a good thing, too....you should notice the boat lifting at about the halfway point in the trim, and it should pick up a few MPH's. With the trim down, the steering should be very quick and responsive, like being able to spin a 180 in the boat's own length.

Working electronics and gauges is also a good thing. I always seem to have problems in this area when I build a boat.....everything else works good, but it's always something fruity going on with a gauge, usually minor, like a ground wire.

And finally, no cavitation is a great thing, because this is the most common problem with jetboat conversions to johnboats, it's worse on flat bottom boats like mine. Yours being a V-hull probably helps a lot. Since you don't have issues with cavitation, that means you don't need a top-loader grate. And if you don't have a top loader grate, that means you can convert your existing grate into a stomp grate, for clearing weeds. (check out the photos of mine for a general idea)


Like with many projects, it's a matter of trial and error, and doing some fine-tuning. Although I built my jetboat in 2005, I tweaked, improved, and fine tuned things for a couple of years, until I had the boat just about the way I wanted it.

Then, when I installed the 4 stroke, I had to re-configure some things, but once it was installed, it was a done deal.
 
Ok so I got some new plugs for the engine not sure why the insulator on the spark plug broke but Im going to carry extras and make sure I dont have a lean condition IE crank seal etc.

After I get it back on the water with the new plugs and spares and get it dialed in I want to weigh my boat and find out why the top speed seemed slow, the Tigershark engine wanted to over rev 7-8k at wot. I would imagine that this is controlled by the impeller and jet nozzle similarly to how wot rpm is controlled by prop pitch on an outboard any ideas? Solas has a YB-CD-16/20 concord series impeller that is steeper than the 14/18 I have now and if that is not enough i can maybe do a custom pitch? or am I jumping the gun on this too soon ?

lastly does everyone else run 92/93 octane?
 
kinda funny PSG your reply showed up after I posted my reply. I read your post so you can disregard my post. thank you again. you have been extremely helpful to me getting my project off the ground and in the water !!
 
scubapro820 said:
kinda funny PSG your reply showed up after I posted my reply. I read your post so you can disregard my post. thank you again. you have been extremely helpful to me getting my project off the ground and in the water !!


Probably because I was editing my post, adding those couple of photos in there for a visual reference.

Sometimes when I come onto the site, though, I get an error message that the certificate can't be shown, and it won't let me log on.
 
scubapro820 said:
Ok so I got some new plugs for the engine not sure why the insulator on the spark plug broke but Im going to carry extras and make sure I dont have a lean condition IE crank seal etc.

Run it at WOT and do a throttle chop (cut it off with the kill switch, key, or stop button, without backing off the throttle) Then pull each plug and compare it to the others, to get an accurate reading of what's going on with the engine. If your carbs have adjustable high speed jets, you can dial them in easily. If they're fixed jets, you'll have to buy different jet sizes and experiment.



After I get it back on the water with the new plugs and spares and get it dialed in I want to weigh my boat and find out why the top speed seemed slow, the Tigershark engine wanted to over rev 7-8k at wot. I would imagine that this is controlled by the impeller and jet nozzle similarly to how wot rpm is controlled by prop pitch on an outboard any ideas?

it's controlled by a rev limiter in the CDI, probably red-lines at about 7K. The TS900 has a rev limit of 7200, the 1000 had a rev limit of 6900, not sure what yours is.


Solas has a YB-CD-16/20 concord series impeller that is steeper than the 14/18 I have now and if that is not enough i can maybe do a custom pitch? or am I jumping the gun on this too soon ?



Again, this is one of those variables that will require some trial and error. A 16/20 would probably be a good balance of hole shot and top end.


lastly does everyone else run 92/93 octane?


I run non-ethanol fuel most of the time, but when I do run ethanol, I stay with mid or even low grade, as the octane in the ethanol fuel comes from the ethanol. Higher octane= higher ethanol.
 
what piston kid did you have the most luck with? crank seals were junk and the guy slapped it together with a top end and crank when he rebuilt the engine- the *** failed to mention the hack job he did to sell the ski. bought a head already all the jugs are good amazingly. got some work ahead of me Im thinkin!!!
 
scubapro820 said:
what piston kid did you have the most luck with? crank seals were junk and the guy slapped it together with a top end and crank when he rebuilt the engine- the *** failed to mention the hack job he did to sell the ski. bought a head already all the jugs are good amazingly. got some work ahead of me Im thinkin!!!


I ran the engine with everything stock, never messed with pistons and rings. If you're looking for some aftermarket parts, check out SBT, they sell just about anything you would need to rebuild an engine. Also, I have a friend here locally that tears down and parts out jet skis, he runs PWCwarehouse.net.....if you need some good condition used parts, let me know, I can see what he has.
 
do you have a good crank and two good jugs ? as it turns out the crank and two jugs are toasted!
 
scubapro820 said:
do you have a good crank and two good jugs ? as it turns out the crank and two jugs are toasted!


Last year, I got swamped by a para-sailing boat, and it filled the boat to the point that the TS1000 engine I was running, sucked water, and killed the center piston and cylinder. The other 2 were in good shape, though. When I got my MR-1 HO engine, I traded what was left of that engine, plus a lot of parts that I had from the TS900 engine originally in my boat....in exchange for the 500 dollar fuel pump needed to run the HO engine.

While I don't have those cylinders, my buddy Dan at PWC warehouse/SBB Customs has them, and I'm sure they can be had at a good price. I'm actually doing some welding repair on an aluminum jet ski trailer for him today.

If you want, when I call to tell him the trailer's done, I can ask about those cylinders (he'll probably wonder WTH I could possibly want them for LOL )

As far as the crankshaft....you don't want the old one from my TS1000 engine, as the center piston rod pretty much bit the dust, along with the crankcase, when the engine got hydro-locked at 6 grand, the needle bearings are history.

The problem is, you can't just replace a piston rod, because they don't use half-collars (that would make too much freakin' sense, wouldn't it?) so, they actually have to cut the shaft at the journals, install a new piston rod, then weld it back together, and do so with everything correctly balanced and squared....I wouldn't even dream of trying that job, that's pretty much for CNC equipment.

Get in touch with SBT and see about getting a remanufactured crankshaft. You may have to send yours as a core....I'm pretty sure of it.

But as far as those cylinders, like I said, despite the middle cylinder being completely blown and FUBAR, the other 2 were in good clean condition. Let me know if you're interested.
 
I will let u know later tonight for sure on the jugs I'm bidding on a complete engine
 
Well I won the eBay engine its complete so ill have plenty of spare parts ordered a complete rebuild kit in advance too total 800 shipped :x
 
Sorry to hear about the problems, and the fact that it's already costing you more money....I know the feeling, been there and done it, with the same engine, basically. :cry:

I didn't want to say anything negative about TS engines to discourage you. I know you're an Arctic Cat mechanic.....but, I see the same situation already occurring with you that happened with me, and I wouldn't wish that headache on anyone. I just hope your issue isn't recurring, like mine was.

I went through 4 TS 900 engines (having it re-built every time it failed) then I went through 2 rebuilds on the TS 1000 engine, before I'd had enough, and decided to go with something totally different. Hey, after a half-dozen times, enough was enough for me. My boat was well-built, but the engine was a POS, bottom line.

If it were me, I'd do the re-build this time, but if it takes another dump on your head, you really might want to consider a different engine.

Arctic Cat might make great snowmobiles and 4 wheelers, I can't say one way or the other, because I don't have any experience with those.....but from my experience with their jet ski engines, I'd say they didn't do so great in that department, which is why they don't make TS jet skis anymore.



When I did the switch from the TS to the Yamaha engine, I dreaded having to cut the mount rails loose and having to do everything all over again, which is one of the reasons I didn't do it much sooner. But the last time that TS engine failed, was the last time it was going to do it to me (granted, it had some help from a scruffy little worm on the 'Eagle One' para-sailing boat, when a 3 foot wake broke over my bow and nearly sank me)

Although it was an involved process, almost like having to re-build the boat over again, I do not regret for one second, going to the Yamaha 4 stroke. More quiet, more powerful, more fuel efficient, and more reliable. What's not to like about that? With the 4 stroke, I've taken my jetboat to places I would NEVER have dreamed of taking it with the TS engine, due to reliability issues.

Not trying to discourage you or pee on your parade, but it's something to think about if the TS engine gives you any more problems.
 
I neglected to inspect the engine first it wouldn't even be an issue had I smoked it with the evap machine first ! A lesson hard learned I suppose. If it happens again I will switch to a Yamaha lol
 
new engine showed up it is wow clean oem pistons good crank just finishing the re seal for insurance purposes and I have a couple questions, it has v force reeds and ocean pro flame arrestors, I have 135 jets in the carbs but it is an oe size 105 120 135 are the oe options, i do not know if this is jetted fat enough anyone ever run these aftermarket parts and know about what jet size is in the ballpark for this engine?
 
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