attaching frame to the boat

[swump]

Brand new to TBoats and I could use some help. I've spent lots of time looking at projects here and I've hit a wall.

I have a 2002 Lowe 1648 MV (really nice shape) and I want to build a single level deck that extends back just short of the center seat. I'd like to use wood because I'm used to working with it and I'm not rivet trained.

Q.1: DO I need to use through-bolts to attach the frame to the bow seat or can I drill pilot holes and use screws? What type of screw if so? I'll have to rout out some of the foam flotation if I use through bolts, which I'd like to avoid. If rivets are the best answer, what type of fasteners would I rivet to the boat that would then support the wood frame? Be forewarned that I'll be back for more riveting advice if I go that way.

Q.2: I did a similar mod to a G3 1442 I sold recently See pictures). I attached 2x4's to the gunwales and built the frame from there. The deck supported my nearly 1/8 of a ton self for stand up fly fishing for years. Is there a good reason I've not seen this type of framing done on any projects on this forum? And should I avoid this with the new boat?

I've enjoyed sloshing around here looking at project boats. Thanks for any help.

 

[richg99]

You do nice work, as evidenced by the pictures.

The ONLY help I might give is...I think if you are attaching anything (metal or wood) to metal....sheet metal screws would work better than normal tapered wood screws. The lack of taper would give better holding power.

I, too, am more comfortable working with wood and, heck, whole ocean-crossing ships were built out of wood. Many years ago, I built a 16 foot dory out of plywood and oak.

For the wooden ships, bronze fasteners were used if they were sailing in salt water. If fresh water, I'd guess that galvanized or plated screws would be better than plain materials.

regards, R

 

[JonBoatfever]

Check out my build in my sig, I had 2x4's on the bunch attached with a bunch of L-brackets

 

[swump]

You do nice work, as evidenced by the pictures.

The ONLY help I might give is...I think if you are attaching anything (metal or wood) to metal....sheet metal screws would work better than normal tapered wood screws. The lack of taper would give better holding power.

I, too, am more comfortable working with wood and, heck, whole ocean-crossing ships were built out of wood. Many years ago, I built a 16 foot dory out of plywood and oak.

For the wooden ships, bronze fasteners were used if they were sailing in salt water. If fresh water, I'd guess that galvanized or plated screws would be better than plain materials.

regards, R

Thanks for the reply, R. I think I'll use your suggestion and attach lumber hangers to the boat using sheet metal screws.

The G3 deck worked well except for the last addition that I made this summer; the foot control trolling motor. The foot control was not so good for stand-up fishing; kind of like standing on one foot on swivel bar stool. I'm going to use a hand control with a hinged bow mount this time.

 

[swump]

Check out my build in my sig, I had 2x4's on the bunch attached with a bunch of L-brackets

Your project was one of the firs I saw, Liam. Good job.

When I was your age I bought a 10' jon boat with a friend. We used our lawn mowing money. Mounted twin wooden outboards on her(oars), and that was about it. I like what you've done...

 

[richg99]

There are a number of solutions making a foot controlled trolling motor more comfortable and useful. I share your concerns.

1. One is to use a PowerGlide??? Minnkota which is expensive but has a much flatter electronic control.

2. Another is to use some of the expensive hand/radio-controlled trolling motors.

3. Another one is copied onto some newer boats is the Comfortroll...
https://www.comfortroll.com/

I'd think that a handy guy could build something like that into his project, without having to pay big bucks for it.

4. At the very least, consider adding a Big Foot power switch onto any regular trolling motor. The ability to stop and start the motor without reaching out for the handle is a big deal for me. Cheap addition with big returns, IMHO.

regards, Rich

 

[Ringo Steele]

About those screws and brackets, I suggest using stainless hardware if possible, as it will not react with the aluminum hull as some other fasteners can. They aren't that much more expensive in the long run. Looking forward to your progress.

Ringo

 

[mmf]

About those screws and brackets, I suggest using stainless hardware if possible, as it will not react with the aluminum hull as some other fasteners can. They aren't that much more expensive in the long run. Looking forward to your progress.

Ringo

I agree with the fasteners, also I WOULD NOT use any type of steel plates, galvanized or not! They will corrode and rust eventually, use aluminum instead. Take a look at John Boat Jerry's build and look at this frame brackets, these would be good-to-go.

 

[swump]

Thanks for the replies and the information. I think I'm going to through-bolt the 2x4's to the gunwales and the bow seat to set the frame using SS hardware. I won't have to rout out much of the stryrofoam float-ant from under the seat ,and it's easily replaced. I'll use epoxy coated screws for lumber to lumber connections. Nothing but SS in contact with the aluminum.

I'm going to use MCA treated plywood and framing lumber (Home Depot has it, Lowes does not). The manufacturer's web site says it's compatible with aluminum, and my boat's painted. She's also going to spend 95% of her life indoors on a trailer (sad, I know). I know there's some risk here, but I'll take my chances. (I sense heads shaking side to side and eyeballs rolling upward)

I'll post some pictures soon. Thanks again for the help.
WS

 

[richg99]

head shaking..eyeballs rolling....

Why would you use the much heavier treated stuff?? Not only are you "taking a chance" but it isn't any stronger than normal wood. It surely is heavier.

If you are worrying about water getting to it, spend more time caulking and sealing. Just my opinion...your boat....

I also understand that...the new stuff, which was supposed to be "better".... is WORSE for aluminum than the old treated lumber.

R

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

head shaking..eyeballs rolling....

Why would you use the much heavier treated stuff?? Not only are you "taking a chance" but it isn't any stronger than normal wood. It surely is heavier.

If you are worrying about water getting to it, spend more time caulking and sealing. Just my opinion...your boat....

I also understand that...the new stuff, which was supposed to be "better".... is WORSE for aluminum than the old treated lumber.

R

+1.
Old treated lumber was arsenic based the new is copper based.

 

[richg99]

In no way am I telling the OP what to do with his own boat. I had NO IDEA about the issues of PT wood and aluminum until I bought my first tinny a year or so ago. However, there seems to be some misunderstanding of the issues and problems....so....here is some further discussion for anyone interested....R
--------------------------------------------------------------


The COPPER is the PROBLEM...

Look up Galvanic corrosion..
************************************************************
this is a pretty good discussion, I think.....

https://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1273075

*********************************************************************
more...

Yellawood.com
https://www.yellawood.com/products/acq

- Aluminum should not be used in direct contact with wood products treated with ACQ preservatives

Spacer materials or other physical barriers are recommended to prevent direct contact of wood treated with ACQ and aluminum building products. When using products treated with ACQ in close proximity to aluminum, such as aluminum siding, flashing, furniture, and door and window frames, a 1/4" minimum spacing must be allowed for between the treated wood and the aluminum products. Another option is to use a polyethylene barrier, with a minimum thickness of 10 mils, between the ACQ treated wood and the aluminum product to prevent direct contact of the wood and the aluminum. Certain adhesives add extra holding power. Apply adhesives in accordance with manufacturer's directions.

* Electroplated galvanized fastener and metal products are typically not accepted by the building codes for use in exterior applications, regardless of the type of wood used.
***********************************************************************
more......

https://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm

 

[swump]

Posted: 30 Dec 2011, 08:57

In no way am I telling the OP what to do with his own boat. I had NO IDEA about the issues of PT wood and aluminum until I bought my first tinny a year or so ago. However, there seems to be some misunderstanding of the issues and problems....so....here is some further discussion for anyone interested....R
--------------------------------------------------------------


The COPPER is the PROBLEM...

Look up Galvanic corrosion..
************************************************************
this is a pretty good discussion, I think.....

https://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1273075

You're in the wrong lumber yard, Rich. I'm not using ACQ, I'm using MCA treated lumber.

Look up MCA treated lumber. Here's a link:
https://www.tarheelwoodtreating.com/products/mcatreatment.html#fastener

I'm well aware of the of the corrosion issues with ACQ treated wood following the consumer ban of CCA treated lumber in 2004. MCA was formulated (around 2009 I think) in large part to address the galvanic corrosion issue. According to the manufacturer MCA has "has corrosion rates on metal products similar to CCA (chromated copper arsenate) pressure treated wood and untreated wood." I've chosen to follow manufacturer's recommendations.

 

[richg99]

Every day I learn something on this site...MCA is, after I did some further research, better than ACQ. Your boat...your choice. Thank you....

Personally, I still wouldn't use it. Just old fashioned and conservative, I guess.

R