Marine paint question

[Gagoosebuster]

What brands of marine grade paint would you consider good? Is there a specific type (epoxy, polyurethane, etc.) that will give me better results than another? I would rather roll it on but I have no problem spraying if that is a better method. I don't care about a show room shine, i am not doing a solid color and would rather not have a super glossy finish. I just want it to stay on the boat and not chip under normal use. I don't want to try my luck with a paint that's not designed to be used on a boat. Preferably I would like a paint made for an aluminum boat. I saw some Interlux at west marine and was going to get it, but after talking to the guy who worked there and him telling me to do the exact opposite from what the can said to do, I decided not to waste any money. I quickly realized he had no clue what he was talking about and I only know enough to be dangerous. Final question, should I use zinc chromate first regardless of what paint or paint & primer I use?

 

[satx78247]

GAgoosebuster,

OK. I'll give you MY opinion, based on nearly 50 years of refinishing boats with paints, and expect LOTS of disagreement/abuse from "marine paint fetishists".

1. Using "marine paint" in my OPINION is a waste of money, as it's NO brighter in most shades/colors & NO more durable.
2. On wooden boats, "porch & deck paint" is BETTER, with proper surface preparation.
3. On CLEAN/sanded bare aluminum, 2-part epoxy paint is superior in every way to marine paint.
4. On sanded but painted aluminum, RUSTOLEM paint, rolled on & then tipped off is FINE & cheaper than marine paints.
5. On fiberglass, RUSTEOLEUM is fine with/without a primer PROVIDED very good surface preparation.
BUT
6. On wood boats (that are to be varnished) & brightwork, a TOP QUALITY marine varnish is clearly superior to other coatings, though NO varnish is durable in direct Sunlight for very long.

Note: The older that I get, the LESS I varnish anything other than limited amounts of brightwork, as I'd rather FISH than do varnishing.

yours, satx

 

[Gagoosebuster]

satx78247 » 31 Jul 2014, 20:37[/url]"]GAgoosebuster,

OK. I'll give you MY opinion, based on nearly 50 years of refinishing boats with paints, and expect LOTS of disagreement/abuse from "marine paint fetishists".

1. Using "marine paint" in my OPINION is a waste of money, as it's NO brighter in most shades/colors & NO more durable.
2. On wooden boats, "porch & deck paint" is BETTER, with proper surface preparation.
3. On CLEAN/sanded bare aluminum, 2-part epoxy paint is superior in every way to marine paint.
4. On sanded but painted aluminum, RUSTOLEM paint, rolled on & then tipped off is FINE & cheaper than marine paints.
5. On fiberglass, RUSTEOLEUM is fine with/without a primer PROVIDED very good surface preparation.
BUT
6. On wood boats (that are to be varnished) & brightwork, a TOP QUALITY marine varnish is clearly superior to other coatings, though NO varnish is durable in direct Sunlight for very long.

Note: The older that I get, the LESS I varnish anything other than limited amounts of brightwork, as I'd rather FISH than do varnishing.

yours, satx

Thanks, I needed a little reassuring, the guy at west marine ruined all of my research & reading and had me second guessing. My intentions were to use a 2 part epoxy paint & primer, then the guy at West Marine just about had me talked into polyurethane. It wasnt until he started telling me things that were the opposite of what the can said that i started to wonder if the guy had any clue what he was talking about. He was telling me to use a 2 part epoxy primer and then go over it with a polyurethane top coat. I didnt want to do that, all i really wanted was a 2 part epoxy primer & paint.

My mind is made up now, im using epoxy paint. Now, should i use zinc chromate before applying the epoxy primer?

 

[SumDumGuy]

use an etching primer on bare metal. if there is paint left on (attached well) then scuff and spray (or roll).

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

Rustoleum makes a marine paint, Manards carries it and it's not too expensive. I'm going to be using tinted Rustoleum enamel on my project boat

 

[satx78247]

SumDumGuy,

IF you're NOT talking about applying EPOXY paint on bare aluminum, I'll AGREE 100% with you. - In my experience (and on bare metal with "tooth" & that is really well-cleaned), epoxy paint will do fine W/O an etching primer.

Otoh, IF using a conventional paint on bare metal, I want zinc chromate under the finish coats every time.

yours, satx

 

[Alex_c]

For what it's worth, I used etching primer on my boat with little success. Zinc chromate is an etching primer but it's formulated to bond to aluminum.

From my research, the steps are:
1- Scuff bare metal
2- Wash with white vinegar or some other mild acid
3- Rinse with water and let dry
4- Clean with acetone
5- Apply zinc chromate primed
6- Apply normal primer if required for top coat
7- Apply top coat

There are a lot of threads over at iboats.com that talk about this that are worth checking out. A google search should point you in the right direction. There are other more involved methods but the one detailed above is the best "easy" way from what my reasearch shows.

 

[Gagoosebuster]

Alex_c » 31 Jul 2014, 21:43[/url]"]For what it's worth, I used etching primer on my boat with little success. Zinc chromate is an etching primer but it's formulated to bond to aluminum.

From my research, the steps are:
1- Scuff bare metal
2- Wash with white vinegar or some other mild acid
3- Rinse with water and let dry
4- Clean with acetone
5- Apply zinc chromate primed
6- Apply normal primer if required for top coat
7- Apply top coat

There are a lot of threads over at iboats.com that talk about this that are worth checking out. A google search should point you in the right direction. There are other more involved methods but the one detailed above is the best "easy" way from what my reasearch shows.

I have read so many post on iboats about painting & prepping my head almost exploded! It seems like everybody has their own way of doing it and there is no definitive "right way." My boat has been sanded to bare alumiunm and there is not one flake of paint on it, before priming i will use Phosphoric etch & clean and then wipe it down with acetone. I am using 2 PART EPOXY PAINT & PRIMER, my mind is set on that and iam not changing it again, i dont want to become a paint expert its costing me too much sleep....... I just want a good brand of epoxy paint & to know whether or not i should use zinc chromate before using the Epoxy primer. I cant even lose sleep over where all i want a compartment & lid for thinking about paint!

 

[jdmjerrystl]

What brand are you looking at using for the epoxy?

 

[Johnny]

Let me share a different approach of PAINT with you.
I would wager that most tin boat owners know zero about paint itself.

Me - - - I am a SIGN PAINTER. I study and use paint for a living. I have gone to many
many seminars and workshops dealing with the scientific and physical aspects of PAINT.
After 40 years in the industry, I now give the seminars as an instructor to my fellow sign painters.
Try to put this concept into your mind - and ponder over it from this approach.

#1. your substrate. what are you painting. wood, brick, glass, metal, etc etc etc.
wood: has little contraction and expansion properties.
glass: same as above
brick: very little and grips anything you put on it TIGHT
ok, now for metal . . . .
metal, especially aluminum expands and contracts GREATLY with heat and cold, night and day.
If you use a hard enamel or epoxy paint that has little movement properties on aluminum,
it will crack and peel within a year or three. that is just the nature of a hard paint. Even with a good primer.
The best of two worlds is LATEX or ACRYLIC paints. it is flexible and moves with the substrate at the same rate.
Varnish and urethanes are the same. They are meant for wood. wood has "tooth" for gripping.
But, even after a few years, it must be refurbished due to use and abuse.
Over the past 30 years or so, I have painted my tinny many times. strip it off and paint it again.
The paint that held up the best in salt and fresh water was Sherwin Williams 30 year house acrylic.
Look at the "reason" you are painting your boat - is it just for cosmetics or preservation of the metal ?
If you want your boat to have that "automotive" finish, paint it like a car to be your "museum show boat",
sand it down, prime it, spray an automotive finish on it and be done with it. But, never take it out.
Just let it sit in your yard and look pretty. Because once you chip the paint, there you go. like a cancer.
No matter what paint you use, eventually, it will need to be touched up or repainted completely.
The factory finish on todays boats are awesome!! baked on powder coat epoxy that will last forever.
OK - I will end this with the sign makers rule to a good paint job..... PREPARE PREPARE PREPARE the surface.
even finger prints and destroy a good paint job over time.
How many times have you seen a wood panel or metal sign outdoors with the paint just flaking off ??
m a n y - because, a hard enamel paint can not move as much as the wood or metal does. (think about it)

Please visit our website for signmakers - by signmakers. Letterville (dot) com.
of course, the forums are like any other . . . lots of ramblings over this and that,
but if you read and pick out what you feel is interesting, you might learn a thing
or two about paints - and painting different objects.
Plus the SEARCH button can find painting on metal, painting on boats,
painting a boat, painting aluminum, painting foam, painting wood, etc etc etc.
https://www.letterville.com/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi/forum/1.html?

Thanks for listening.

Oh, I used just plain old Rustoleum Stop Sign Red enamel and White on my last paint job. Parked in the sun
and elements all the time. 4 years old now and is time for a repaint. The aluminum trailer is also painted
with the same white.
All of it cleans up well with DAWN dish soap and bleach with a soft brush.

 

[satx78247]

Barefoot_Johnny,

1st, THANKS for the website info. - I can really USE that info & will share the reference with my buddies over on: https://www.fiberglassics.com.
(That's where the REAL fanatics on vintage boat restoration hang out. - A few guys there use HIGH-GLOSS aircraft paint for refinishing & that paint is $$$$$$$$$$$.)

Also, I really LIKE your rig. = PURTY.

Fwiw, I use "2-part epoxy paint" on aluminum "show boats" with good success, after sanding it to bare metal & thoroughly cleaning the surfaces (with a citrus-based paint remover). - Surface preparation being the key to adhesion & a nice "factory new" look.
Otoh, I agree that for "using boats" that premium latex porch & deck paint is FINE.

BTW, IF it comes in a color that you like (VERY few colors!) , the paint sold by tractor/combine dealers for agricultural implements AND the paints made for refinishing BBQ pits will get REALLY HARD & you can hardly get it off with sandpaper.

yours, satx

 

[Johnny]

When stationed at the Naval Air Station in Key West back in the 70s,
I was buds with the paint shop and they gave me all kinds of aircraft paints.
Two-Part epoxies: Zinc Chromates (yellow and green) and white and gray topcoats.
I had gone through several motors and each one had a top-notch paint job on it LOL !!
Didn't run worth a crap, but, they sure were purty !!

Note: you can NOT paint two-part epoxy paints with a brush or roller and expect
a factory finish. They must be sprayed. and all equipment cleaned up A.S.A.P. when done.
This paint is TOXIC TOXIC TOXIC and all appropriate safety precautions MUST be adhered to. Imron especially.
I wish I had the photos of a VW Bug we painted with Navy F105 Phantom Jet Gray & White !!

This is where I got my first education in preparing and painting aluminum surfaces.
Thanks to the U.S. Navy, I have been free schooled in painting techniques, wood working,
metal work, mold making, metal casting, surface prep for primers, how salt affects different metals,
how to prevent and treat corrosion in different metals, how to repair fiberglass damages on
Navy small boats, wood repair on Navy Mine Sweepers, the list goes on and on and on. (thank you Uncle Sam)
I do not comment on someones post unless I KNOW what I am talking about - either through education
or trial and error of my own personal experiences.

I have seen Fiberglassics before and like you said - - -
That is where the REAL fanatics on vintage boat restoration hang out
LOL that is why I only lurk there occasionally LOL

 

[Gagoosebuster]

What brand are you looking at using for the epoxy?

I have no clue, i would love some suggestions!

Barefoot johnny, Thanks for the info.

 

[Johnny]

ALL the techniques offered here by the other gentlemen are dead on correct - they are ALL good points.
keep us posted of your choice, method of application and photos of your finished project.

 

[Johnny]

:LMFAO:

marine paint fetishists

:LMFAO:
that's funny right there, I don't care where you're from

 

[satx78247]

Barefoot_Johnny,

Fwiw, I have my "show rigs" sprayed by a buddy in Southside, SA. = "Steve" has a REAL, professional-style, paint booth, with all the "goodies" to protect him from POISONOUS chemicals.
(Steve looks like a "spaceman" or an "alien creature from outer space", when he shoots some kinds of paints.)

yours, satx

 

[DacMan]

Barefoot_Johnny » 03 Aug 2014, 08:15[/url]"]Let me share a different approach of PAINT with you.
I would wager that most tin boat owners know zero about paint itself.

Me - - - I am a SIGN PAINTER. I study and use paint for a living. I have gone to many
many seminars and workshops dealing with the scientific and physical aspects of PAINT.
After 40 years in the industry, I now give the seminars as an instructor to my fellow sign painters.
Try to put this concept into your mind - and ponder over it from this approach.

#1. your substrate. what are you painting. wood, brick, glass, metal, etc etc etc.
wood: has little contraction and expansion properties.
glass: same as aboveboard
brick: very little and grips anything you put on it TIGHT
ok, now for metal . . . .
metal, especially aluminum expands and contracts GREATLY with heat and cold, night and day.
If you use a hard enamel or epoxy paint that has little movement properties on aluminum,
it will crack and peel within a year or three. that is just the nature of a hard paint. Even with a good primer.
The best of two worlds is LATEX or ACRYLIC paints. it is flexible and moves with the substrate at the same rate.
Varnish and urethanes are the same. They are meant for wood. wood has "tooth" for gripping.
But, even after a few years, it must be refurbished due to use and abuse.
Over the past 30 years or so, I have painted my tinny many times. strip it off and paint it again.
The paint that held up the best in salt and fresh water was Sherwin Williams 30 year house acrylic.
Look at the "reason" you are painting your boat - is it just for cosmetics or preservation of the metal ?
If you want your boat to have that "automotive" finish, paint it like a car to be your "museum show boat",
sand it down, prime it, spray an automotive finish on it and be done with it. But, never take it out.
Just let it sit in your yard and look pretty. Because once you chip the paint, there you go. like a cancer.
No matter what paint you use, eventually, it will need to be touched up or repainted completely.
The factory finish on todays boats are awesome!! baked on powder coat epoxy that will last forever.
OK - I will end this with the sign makers rule to a good paint job..... PREPARE PREPARE PREPARE the surface.
even finger prints and destroy a good paint job over time.
How many times have you seen a wood panel or metal sign outdoors with the paint just flaking off ??
m a n y - because, a hard enamel paint can not move as much as the wood or metal does. (think about it)

Please visit our website for signmakers - by signmakers. Letterville (dot) com.
of course, the forums are like any other . . . lots of ramblings over this and that,
but if you read and pick out what you feel is interesting, you might learn a thing
or two about paints - and painting different objects.
Plus the SEARCH button can find painting on metal, painting on boats,
painting a boat, painting aluminum, painting foam, painting wood, etc etc etc.
https://www.letterville.com/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi/forum/1.html?

Thanks for listening.

Oh, I used just plain old Rustoleum Stop Sign Red enamel and White on my last paint job. Parked in the sun
and elements all the time. 4 years old now and is time for a repaint. The aluminum trailer is also painted
with the same white.
All of it cleans up well with DAWN dish soap and bleach with a soft brush.

Going to have to strongly disagree that wood has little expansion and contraction properties.

 

[Dark3]

To piggyback this question, with all the desert brown g3 owners has anybody figured out a way to get color matched paint without overpaying for those little cans at the dealer?

 

[Johnny]

Then you sir, Mr. DacMan, need to go out and look at some of the older painted wood signs in your area.
specifically, plywood signs - - - THEN, after your exploratory venture, please report back to us all
as to your findings with photos.
Then, we can debate how plywood reacts with exposure to weather.

get OUT of your car, walk up to the wood sign, and carefully examine it up close. TAKE SOME PHOTOS.

We sign makers use the 60/60 rule when it comes to structure signs....
60 miles an hour and 60 feet away, it looks AWESOME !!!
12" away, standing still, you will wonder when it will finish rotting away and fall to the ground.

Looking forward to your reporting back soon.
Johnny

 

[DacMan]

Barefoot_Johnny » 06 Sep 2014, 17:29[/url]"]Then you sir, Mr. DacMan, need to go out and look at some of the older painted wood signs in your area.
specifically, plywood signs - - - THEN, after your exploratory venture, please report back to us all
as to your findings with photos.
Then, we can debate how plywood reacts with exposure to weather.

get OUT of your car, walk up to the wood sign, and carefully examine it up close. TAKE SOME PHOTOS.

We sign makers use the 60/60 rule when it comes to structure signs....
60 miles an hour and 60 feet away, it looks AWESOME !!!
12" away, standing still, you will wonder when it will finish rotting away and fall to the ground.

Looking forward to your reporting back soon.


Johnny

Plywood and wood are not the same. While plywood is made of wood not all wood is rotary sliced and processed into plywood. For example solid wood such as a hardwood like run of the mill red oak will expand and contract far more than metal when experiencing sever humidity changes. As the moisture content rises from kiln dried (6-7%) wood expands in incredible ways. In fact wood expands with enough force that an old geologists trick to split a rock is fit a dry wedge of wood down into a crevice then water the the wood wedge daily. The expansion of the wood can be enough to split the rock.