Stability = width or length?

[kenn1320]

Hi forum members, my first post and its a question(sorry in advance). Ive been doing a lot of searching and found this site had lots of information. Ive never owned a boat, looking for my first one. Primary use will be taking my 2 children fishing with rod/reel as well as bowfishing. I have waterfowl gear, might give that a try as well. Im trying to keep the overall weight and length down due to towing considerations. Im trying to stay in the 14-16ft jon boat size. Ive found several boats locally on the used market, some seem to want a fortune, others closer to nada. My issue is trying to determine the better boat for stability as well as my application. I found a (09) 1455 roughneck, (12) 1648 grizzly, and a over priced (05) 1652vt roughneck. The 1455(25 merc 4strk) is the highest priced and at the top of my budget. The grizzly doesnt have a motor, so its cheaper initially. He never mounted a motor, only an electric troller on the front. The 1652 has a 25 2strk johnson. Im also a buyer with an itchy pocket, which is the worst kind I know. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I havent looked at any of these, but will hopefully be looking at them tomorrow/this week.
thanks,
Ken

 

[DrNip]

Those will all be stable boats. My 1248 is pretty dang stable and it is only 12' long. With two kids I would get one of the 16 footers. I'd try for the 1652 and try to get the price down.

 

[overboard]

Agree that all of them should be pretty stable boats. With 3 people, I would also think the 1652 would be the one to consider.

 

[kenn1320]

Thanks for the reply's! Here is the situation, I am taking a loan for the purchase of a boat and the bank will only loan on nada value.
The 05 1652 nada value is $2350 which I feel is low, but is what it is. The dealer is asking $4800.
https://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/2005/Lowe-Ind/R1652VT-ROUGHNECK/10224320/values

The 09 1455 has a nada value of $5070 and the guy is asking $5500 but has told me he would take $5k.
https://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/2009/Lowe-Ind/R1455-ROUGHNECK/10270713/values

The 12 1648 grizzly that has no motor is nada $2912 and he is asking $2600.
https://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/2012/Tracker-Marine/GRIZZLY-1648/32024061/values

I see people commenting on other sites that nada value is wrong, yet some boats are priced accordingly and others nowhere close. I understand the price is what somebody is willing to pay, but if the bank doesnt think its worth double nada, why should I?

 

[dhoganjr]

Boats depreciate faster than probably anything else.

A guys boat is one of his most personal and prized possessions. Usually many hours, days, etc getting everything exactly the way you want it. When it comes time to sell it that time and personalization is often figured in the price. In the end it is only worth what someone is willing to pay, if it is exactly what someone is looking for and has been taken care of they may be willing to pay for it. Also they may put a higher price on it, not really wanting to sell it, but if they get offered the right price, ok.

All the boats listed should be stable, stay above at least a 48 inch bottom, the wider the better. Check them over good, don't just buy the first thing you see. Even if you really like it go check out several others just to be sure. Try to get a test run if possible, if it has an outboard make sure it is in good running condition and get it checked by a mechanic if possible.

Another point, the bigger you get the bigger outboard your going to want or need in order to plane it.

When you get one the fever starts, post pics. Good luck in your search.

 

[overboard]

If I am reading this correctly; the NADA value you are looking at is what just the BOAT is worth. Add the trailer, motor, and any other accessories, and the price is going to increase.

 

[Stumpalump]

Where do you live that you can't find good used boats? Check Craigslist. These small outboards are good for 20 years unless it's a mercury and the boats last 60 years. Look on craigslist. Did those boats you listed come with a trailer? 16' with 25 plus hp will do a lot with the kid cooler and dog. Get a motor that is the max size recommended for the hull. You will be dad of the year!

 

[Bugpac]

You should go after a signature loan. Nada is a load of crap on a older boat. They take into account no accesories etc... if you follow nada you will kick yourself in the arse when you go add a motor etc out of your pocket..

 

[kenn1320]

Thanks again for the response, this is a great site.
1. The Nada values posted include motor and trailer where applicable right down to the model of the motor(not just hp). Sorry it appears my links arent working correctly. I priced new boats and a G3 1652 hull is $3250 and a new trailer is $700. Maybe that along with a mid 80's motor would be the best bet?

2. I am finding these boats via craigslist.

3. I have the cash in my pocket via a signature loan, so I can buy the boat I want when I see it. After the sale, Id like to switch it over to a collateral loan due to the interest rate being half of a signature loan. Like I said Im willing to spend more then Nada, but should I be spending double?

4. Mercury outboards dont last long? I was thinking they were one of the better ones?

I realize pictures can be deceiving, but even in the pictures the 09 is imaculant compaired to the others. Even the trailer looks brand new. I have spoken with that owner via email(he has been out of town on vacation) and he is a retired gentleman who trailers down to Tennessee for the winter. This tells me his boat gets more use then somebody who doesnt leave Michigan, yet his equipment looks well stored/taken care of. Again I have been fooled by pictures and descriptions in the past on cars, so Im not falling hook line and sinker just yet. I dont mind spending the money up to $5k on the right boat if it means its the better boat.

 

[richg99]

I am also in the process of buying a used boat. It seems that the best boats ...price/quality...do not last too long.

Be the first to view the boat. If it has been listed for weeks and weeks...something isn't right. Rich

 

[JMichael]

Stumpalump » Today, 10:18[/url]"]Where do you live that you can't find good used boats? Check Craigslist. These small outboards are good for 20 years unless it's a mercury and the boats last 60 years. Look on craigslist. Did those boats you listed come with a trailer? 16' with 25 plus hp will do a lot with the kid cooler and dog. Get a motor that is the max size recommended for the hull. You will be dad of the year!

What motors are you running that only last 20 years? A few years ago I had a 12' boat with a 1966 3.9 Mercury that ran so good I could remove the cover and spin the flywheel with my bare hand and start it. Then I upgraded to a 15' boat with a 1975 20hp merc that runs like a swiss watch. It never took more than 2 pulls (even when cold) to start, and only a half pull when semi warm. I sold that to a good friend when I upgraded to an 86 Merc Mariner 25hp. It starts easy and runs great. So if you're only getting 20 years out of your current motor of choice, maybe you should try running a Mercury for a change. :lol:

 

[Ranchero50]

Honestly, I think that your thought process for going after your first boat is totally wrong.

I will never recommend a guy buy an expensive or newer hull for their first boat. You are going to do dumb stuff when you first get out on the water, it happens to everyone. Your first hull should be an inexpensive 1448 or 1648 jon boat with a tiller motor and basic trailer. Cost should be max limited to $3000 cash, but $1500 is a more realistic price point depending on where you live. At this point you do not know if the kids will like the experience, or if you will once you are in the elements (hot / cold / rain / wind / chop). So, minimize the risk while maximizing the enjoyment. Your first hull will teach you a lot about what you want and need in a boat. Folks never get their dream boat out of the first hull they build. It usually takes 3 hulls to get the boat you really need and can enjoy for your intended recreation on your intended body of water.

To really give good advice we need to know what your intended use is and where it will be fished. The above recommendation is sound for a smaller river or lake with minimum water traffic or weather conditions. Big water or heavy traffic will change the recommendation.

As said above, Craigslist is great for finding deals and also getting an idea what the market will bear. With the economy still in the crapper, there are tons of hulls out there that need minimal amounts of work to be enjoyable. Checking a couple times a day will at least get you a chance to see the hull. Just be ready to go look at it that evening with cash in hand. Usually asking what size ball the trailer takes will show the owner that you are serious. That's how I found mine, a well used Alumacraft 1448MV with a 9.9 Merc and load rite trailer for $1500 that I was lucky enough to be the first caller on. It's also dang near impossible to deal when the seller is getting calls from other prospective buyers while you are looking at it.

 

[kenn1320]

Ranchero50 » 06 Jul 2014, 15:44[/url]"]Honestly, I think that your thought process for going after your first boat is totally wrong.

I will never recommend a guy buy an expensive or newer hull for their first boat. You are going to do dumb stuff when you first get out on the water, it happens to everyone. Your first hull should be an inexpensive 1448 or 1648 jon boat with a tiller motor and basic trailer. Cost should be max limited to $3000 cash, but $1500 is a more realistic price point depending on where you live. At this point you do not know if the kids will like the experience, or if you will once you are in the elements (hot / cold / rain / wind / chop). So, minimize the risk while maximizing the enjoyment. Your first hull will teach you a lot about what you want and need in a boat. Folks never get their dream boat out of the first hull they build. It usually takes 3 hulls to get the boat you really need and can enjoy for your intended recreation on your intended body of water.

To really give good advice we need to know what your intended use is and where it will be fished. The above recommendation is sound for a smaller river or lake with minimum water traffic or weather conditions. Big water or heavy traffic will change the recommendation.

As said above, Craigslist is great for finding deals and also getting an idea what the market will bear. With the economy still in the crapper, there are tons of hulls out there that need minimal amounts of work to be enjoyable. Checking a couple times a day will at least get you a chance to see the hull. Just be ready to go look at it that evening with cash in hand. Usually asking what size ball the trailer takes will show the owner that you are serious. That's how I found mine, a well used Alumacraft 1448MV with a 9.9 Merc and load rite trailer for $1500 that I was lucky enough to be the first caller on. It's also dang near impossible to deal when the seller is getting calls from other prospective buyers while you are looking at it.

Ah yes, this is in the back of my mind for sure. Im not sure how often I would actually use a boat, and since I dont have any good experience with small tin boats, Im not sure exactly what I want. My brother has a 1436 and I know that is the last thing I want(tippy when standing up). I also know I want an open floor, no center seat to step over. I see they can be removed, but doesnt that weaken the structure? Honestly my thought was if I buy a quality boat and dont like it, I shouldnt have much trouble selling it. Of course the ones I see for sale here have been on the market awhile, been surfing the craigslist for several weeks now. Even if they are great boats, shows that I might struggle to sell that boat if I dont like it. I also agree with your comment about being new and doing stupid things. I just fear getting somebody elses nightmare, so was trying to look at welded boats.

My intended use is inland lakes, maybe a river in the future. I would also like to go to saginaw bay along the shores for bowfishing. I realize a flat bottom is not a big water boat and understand it can be calm now and a storm roll in 10min from now and be in trouble. This will be a bass/panfish fishing boat along with bowfishing. My kids are 9 & 11, and growing. At this moment in life, the lazy river on a tube at the water park is fun for them, the slides are not. If the boat could pull a tube 5mph, that would satisfy them for awhile.

 

[Stumpalump]

I just looked on Lansing Craig's assuming it's close to you and there is a 16' Aluminum boat posted for free! Go get it or square up and come back with a trailer. If you can't pay cash......Here is one in the same area for 1500. It's hard to sell a boat so you may be the first to call. I'd start at 1k if it was perfect. https://lansing.craigslist.org/boa/4541622334.html. I'd take that hull over a flat bottom in a heart beat especially in the bay but nothing wrong with a flat bottom in calm water. Let us know what Craig's you prefer and we would get a kick out of helping you sort thru what's available.

 

[kenn1320]

Stumpalump » 06 Jul 2014, 16:36[/url]"]I just looked on Lansing Craig's assuming it's close to you and there is a 16' Aluminum boat posted for free! Go get it or square up and come back with a trailer. If you can't pay cash......Here is one in the same area for 1500. It's hard to sell a boat so you may be the first to call. I'd start at 1k if it was perfect. https://lansing.craigslist.org/boa/4541622334.html. I'd take that hull over a flat bottom in a heart beat especially in the bay but nothing wrong with a flat bottom in calm water. Let us know what Craig's you prefer and we would get a kick out of helping you sort thru what's available.

Due to shallow water and the desire to shoot off front deck, flat bottom is all I'm interested in. Bummer there are tons of nice v bottom boats on the market.
Lansing/Ann Arbor/flint/Detroit metro are all in my area relatively speaking. I drove to Indiana for a motorcycle, not afraid to drive for right boat.

 

[Johnny]

more wider = more gooder
more wider = more SAFER

I wish I could afford a 1660 semi-V

 

[Stumpalump]

It's a bad time of the year because flat bottoms are stupid expensive in your neck. 1/2 the boat for twice the money. You could buy this and sell or trade it in the fall. It's a smokin deal. https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/boa/4507418798.html

 

[PATRIOT]

$1500 has been a good price point for many years for boat (14ft), motor (15hp), trailer, trolling motor, fake lake, and PFDs

 

[PATRIOT]

Barefoot_Johnny » Today, 15:22[/url]"]more wider = more gooder
more wider = more SAFER

and . . . more wider = more pounding unless it's a v-hull

 

[kenn1320]

Stumpalump » 07 Jul 2014, 00:06[/url]"]It's a bad time of the year because flat bottoms are stupid expensive in your neck. 1/2 the boat for twice the money. You could buy this and sell or trade it in the fall. It's a smokin deal. https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/boa/4507418798.html

Yeah it seems like fall would be a better time to shop for a deal. I saw that boat you listed, that thing is just plain ugly. Looks super heavy as well. If it's wide, might make a great foundation to start with(tear off the enclosure), but that's a pricey hull to start cutting on.

What state could I search for more realistic pricing? I shipped a minivan from Maryland 3yrs ago, might be an option to ship a boat. I have seen deals in Texas on some of the bowfishing forums.